Hoping this would happen...

[StealthSpeed3]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080429/ap_on_re_us/prayer_death

I hate to come off like an ass, but the parents are getting what they deserved. They were asked by friends to take their daughter to the hospital for help and yet they did not due to their beliefs. It's the second case this year i have read about where the parents who are religious fanatics believe that prayer will help a deathy ill child get better because they believe that the devil is causing the sickness.

Parents like this honestly make me want to take a 2x4 upside their heads and knock a whole lot of sense into them. Anyone else feel the same way?

[Jesse MS3GT]

:( Good to hear the parents are being charged.

[dmention7]

Even taking the most sympathetic view possible of the parents, you'd think it might have occurred to them that God's healing might have been delivered through the hands of a doctor or something. The fact that they couldn't suspend their own narcissistic faith long enough to help their daughter, or even rationalize the idea of seeking help outside their prayers, sickens me. They deserve to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

[ZoomZoom Diva]

This is a very dangerous precedent. Parents need to be allowed very broad rights in allowing their children to be raised according to their moral and religious beliefs. Forcing parents to submit their children to medical care when it is against their beliefs is a very slippery slope that I do not wish to travel.

Also, if they are convicted and sent to prison, it will be an utter waste of taxpayer dollars as they do not pose a threat and the death of the child is punishment in itself.

[Big Nate]

This is just one more reason not to beleave that god will help you. You help yourself.

[Workdawg]

I agree James. The parents believed they were doing what was best for their child.

[dmention7]

The medical care wasn't against their beliefs. The parents simply chose to act selfishly and ignore the child's best interest.

Allowing parents to neglect their children's well-being in the name of faith is the more dangerous precedent as far as I'm concerned. We already have religions brainwashing children and forcing 14 year old girls to marry old men in the name of their beliefs. The last thing we need is to add physical neglect and abuse to the list of things people can get away with in the name of their god.

[ZoomZoom Diva]

I don't agree they were being selfish or acting to what they believed was contrary to the best interests of the child. The bottom line is if the state can overrule the parents in a case like this, where does it end? Do we just allow the state to take all children and raise them in boot camps because they have authority to determine the best interests of the child over the parents?

[dmention7]

No, but parents have a legal responsibility to their children up to their 18th birthday. We have systems in place for determining when neglect has taken place--the only thing that separates this case from the thousands of cases of neglect that get prosecuted is that it was motivated by the parent's religion as opposed to laziness or cruel intent.

[ZoomZoom Diva]

That difference in motivation completely alters the situation.

[dmention7]

I'm not convinced of that, personally.

I also detest the idea that an unprovable claim, such as a person's faith, could be used to reduce that person's liability in the commission of a crime.

[Workdawg]

There's a big difference between not caring enough to get help for your kid, and just straight up believing what you are doing is the right thing.

James has pretty much summed up my position on this, at what point will the govt. have too much power?

Whatever happened to the seperation of church and state. Aren't people supposed to be allowed to believe whatever they want as long as it isn't harming others?

[ZoomZoom Diva]

In most cases, a person's faith is a very provable claim as you would be able to produce witnesses indicating a pattern of belief over a period of time. We aren't talking about a sudden conversion a short time before the girl's death here.

While tragic, I also have considerable issues calling her death a crime.

[dmention7]

Aren't people supposed to be allowed to believe whatever they want as long as it isn't harming others?

Precisely. There is a reason we have child neglect laws. Because the children can't necessarily fend for themselves, parental neglect is criminal behavior when it results in harm to the child.

[ZoomZoom Diva]

However, I have a problem with government determining the definition of neglect rather than allowing parents to act in what they truly believe are in the best interests of the child. Also, I look at a child as a part of the family unit that the parent has control over, rather than an outsider that would be considered under the definition of "others".

[Workdawg]

If you read the article, the parents faith was very obvious. I don't see any mention of the daughter's faith, but it would stand to reason that she believed the way her parents did. Sure, she is a minor, but if her beliefs are the same, then that's what happens I guess.

[ZoomZoom Diva]

So, would you charge parents who are part of an organized religion that bans some or all medical treatments? For example, if the parents are Jehovah's Witnesses and the child dies due to the lack of a blood transfusion?

[dmention7]

As long as we're discussing slippery slopes, then at what point does religion NOT become an excuse for neglecting and/or abusing your children? Does religious freedom protect your right to marry an underage first cousin? Does it allow you pummel your kid because the devil is infesting their body?

That's the slippery slope I see in this case.

[dmention7]

Screw it. Maybe this is just social and biological darwinism intersecting. If a parent's legal obligation to their kids ends at "hoping" they will get better, then something somewhere is messed up.

I say dig through the parent's medical history. If any of them has been to a doctor under their own power, then nail them to the cross.

[Big Nate]

I told my wife to pull the plug if I am past the point of return. I also told her I would do the same to her (per her request now that is lol). This is not a choice the child has those the parents need to make it for her. They should have made the choice to save the child’s life not to believe that there little pretend friend would come down and save her. In the past a lot of people have DIED because they believe that god will save them. Why do people insist that god will save them if they just pray enough? Jay makes a very good point we have laws to protect children from this kind of thing. Let just say I don't give my child anything to do with meat kind of a vegan lifestyle thing. The child dies of malnutrition is it my fault??? Or can I then say nope my religion bans meat and milk so sorry can't do anything to me. How many people that don’t want kids are then going to let there kid die because they will not get in trouble now.



This is a very powerful case in both ways. The big brother aspect of the Gov coming into our homes and telling us how to live, and on the flip side there is the fact that a lot of kids are going to die because of there ignorant or bad parents.

.

[ZoomZoom Diva]

Nate, considering everything, I advise you and your wife to get living wills that spell out your wishes, a HIPAA release so medical providers can actually release the information to you about her and vice versa, and a health care power of attourney so you can act in each other's stead.

On topic, I will agree it's a difficult line. Inflicting deliberate harm by beating a child (versus corporal punishment) is very different to me than ignoring a real problem, which is very different to me from acting in a non-mainstream way.

Do I believe the parents made the right decision? Hell no! I think they're majorly screwed up in the head! However, I don't believe I have the right to force them to live according to my beliefs either.

[Jesse MS3GT]

^ Your lack of hypocrisy is quite admirable.

[cosmicspd3]

this same thing happened a while ago with 2 little kids that had ear infections... Not to be mean or anything but doing that to your kids is frickin mean and I agree they got what they deserve...except they'll prolly go make more babies anyway and do the same thing over again :(

[AJ]

I on the side that gets the kids the medical help they need. Those who think a prayer will help and thus will not take action are part of the problem. But, does a case like this get any attention when it happens over and over again in other countries. Then, what's the deal with letting children die simply because the familys can't afford help. And I'm not talking US here. Probably a side of the debate not relevant here.

Save some tax dollars. Just by the bullets and pull the trigger.

[spek1098]

These parents bastardize what it means to be religious. I believe people who allow their religious belief to completely disconnect them from reality and from all forms of common sense, which allows an act like this to occur, if they are not criminally negligent, then they are mental ill to the point of commitment. What I’m hearing here is the same arguments that are used by all the cults and all these polygamist sects (which are almost always born out of the desire of old men to sleep with young teenager girls); the argument that government should stay out of peoples faiths. It's a slippery slope the other way as well, to allow people to use faith as a cover for horrible acts.

[Young Roids]

These parents bastardize what it means to be religious. I believe people who allow their religious belief to completely disconnect them from reality and from all forms of common sense, which allows an act like this to occur, if they are not criminally negligent, then they are mental ill to the point of commitment. What I’m hearing here is the same arguments that are used by all the cults and all these polygamist sects (which are almost always born out of the desire of old men to sleep with young teenager girls); the argument that government should stay out of peoples faiths. It's a slippery slope the other way as well, to allow people to use faith as a cover for horrible acts.

You hit the nail on the head. I couldn't agree more.

[dmention7]

+1 Well said.