The Chevy Volt

[AJ]

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/11/autos/volt_official_reveal/index.htm?cnn=yes


The Volt will be driven by electricity stored in a large T-shaped lithium-ion battery pack running the length of the car. After charging for several hours, the Volt will be able to run for up to about 40 miles without using gasoline.

GM did not announce pricing for the car, which will have the equivalent of about 150 horsepower and a top speed of 100 mph, the automaker said.

To charge the batteries, drivers will plug a cord into one of the ports just ahead of each of the side mirrors. The cord can then be attached to an ordinary home electrical outlet.

The car will cost "less than purchasing a cup of your favorite coffee" to recharge, and use less electricity annually than a refrigerator. The Volt should cost less than 2 cents per mile to drive on electricity, GM said, compared to 12 cents a mile on gasoline at a price of $3.60 a gallon.

As the battery begins to run down as the car is in use, a small gasoline engine will turn on and generate enough electricity to drive the car about 300 miles.


If the pricing doesn't get stupid crazy to offset R&D costs I would think this could be big time winner and I'd look at it. For me, it would mean never using gas during the work week, most weeks.

[YSOSLO]

Yeah I was reading about this one in Car & Driver a couple of months ago and it would definitely be the best option for me too. It's about 40 miles on-the-nose round-trip to work so the gasoline engine for back-up totally makes it perfect IMO.

[YSOSLO]

...AND it looks pretty cool too!

[dmention7]

I think I heard pricing was going to start around $40k. So, within the reach of a large amount of the population, but nowhere near cheap enough to be appealing to the majority of consumers. High sticker price is probably going to be a fact of life for the first generation of plug-in hybrids, but hopefully they catch on enough that economies of scale can take hold and battery technology can accelerate.

[DrWebster]

Only 40 miles per charge ain't enough for me, unless my work lets me plug my car in there during the day (which they wouldn't).

[JohnnyT]

^ Similar to the initial pricing structure of next-gen TVs. As techonology advances the pricing will go down as competitors are introduced too...

$40k is reasonable, but as you stated not (initially) cheap enough to appeal to the majority. That's about a $780/mo. payment on 6.5% interest for 60 months.

Any interior shots? I'd rock it no doubt. I'm 30 miles to work so I could just plug it in while I'm working, and drive home not using the gas engine.

[YSOSLO]

The thing you have to factor into the $40K price is the fact that you're spending about $200 (and more for many of us) a week in gas, so add whatever you're paying in gas to the monthly payment you're paying right now and THEN decide if you can afford it or not. The nice thing about this is that you still have a 340 mile range on a full tank on a one-way trip, because the gasoline engine powers the batteries once the initial charge wears down. That's all most of us are getting in our cars right now anyway...on average, right?

[dmention7]

That's an excellent point, Pete, but I think in reality a lot of people would still have trouble swallowing the price, regardless of the actual fuel savings. Some people will, for sure, but unfortunately I don't think enough people factor cost of ownership into their decision to the point where they could justify $40k on an "economy" car.

[JustROLLIN]

Wasnt there a two door version in earlier proto-types? I remember enjoying the looks more than the picture in the article. Now it just looks like a Honda Civic.

[JohnnyT]

I think most American's wouldn't be able to comprehend the total cost of ownership. They can't even do that when owning a house (most people don't realize they're still spending $1,000/ mo. in maintenance to run a house and up-keep even though they say their house is paid-off). I run into it all the time as an objection in my job.

If the maintenance is little time-consuming and it's not at the dealership constantly I'd consider one no doubt. Then again, I'm probably just going to move to St. Paul, and spend the $40k elsewhere. Hooker?

[Picklz]

It's a step in the right direction, and I'm glad it actually looks half way decent. I myself can't see spending the kind of money their asking, Also I'd be very hesitant to buy a first gen model both from a cost and a reliability standpoint, especially with GM's less than amazing success with electronics. I think if you can wait a few years much better alternatives will show up.

If they get something like this up to 100-150 miles on a charge, and get that price down to the 25-30k mark, then I'll be interested.


Also there is an article on autoblog.com with more pictures including an interior shot. It has a full LCD gauge 'cluster' that you can configure with whatever gauges you want to see.

Video of the Volt Interior - the Center stack comes in multiple colors (not just white) which is pretty cool
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/16/video-walkthrough-of-2011-chevy-volt-interior/

[AJ]

I'm surprised that the interior isn't cost cutting, from the first look, it looks very nice! I can honestly say that this is probably something we'll look at since it's going to be out around the same time Jana's lease is up.

[ZoomZoom Diva]

Pete, I think you're exaggerating that many of us are spending $200 a week on gas for a single car. At $4 a gallon, that's 50 gallons of gas, which at even 20 miles a gallon is 1000 miles a week. That's HUGE amounts of driving. Maybe $200 a month is more like it.

There is also the potential maintenance costs of the battery pack to consider, and what happens if the pack is dead (can you disconnect the engine from the battery to jump it to get home in an emergency, and how much to replace it when the time comes)?

Also, don't forget the time value of money. A dollar I spend to buy this car is more valuable than the dollar I spend to buy gasoline 5 years from now. I also am a little cynical that the car would actually cost less than $40 - $60 in electricity to charge a year (what an average refrigerator costs to run).

Of course, I also think Johnny is exaggerating the costs to maintain a house per month, even including taxes and insurance for an average home. I don't know anyone who really spends that much, and we've discussed this amongst my friends in detail.

Personally, I think it's good that we're researching new technologies, but this is one that will need more work before it becomes cost effective.

[LASERBLUE135]

My 2 cents.

This car is a step in the right direction and 40k is a lot less than a $100k lexus hybrid. People will buy into it, makes the next generation technology cheaper. Those are all good things.

However, Volvo made a car that got 100 miles per gallon 30 years ago now. and the car drove like any other regular car. I expect leaps and bounds in the future of autotransport, this clearly isn't it. BUT it's a nice starting point. With more companies jumping on the bandwagon to produce real family cars with real usable energy tech, expect some company, SOON, to come up with a much larger leap forward. I sure hope so.

[Workdawg]

Car MSRP:
Toyota Yaris = $12,000
Chevy Volt = $40,000

Cost to operate a Yaris for 1 year:
15,000miles / 30mpg = 500 gallons
500 gallons * $3.60 = $1800 a year

Number of years to make up cost diff:
$40,000 - $12,000 = 28,000
28,000 / 1,800 = 15.5555

Assuming it cost NOTHING to drive the volt, which is wrong of course, it'll take 15 years to make up the cost difference. You'd get 14,600 miles on the Volt if you drove it 40 miles EVERY day.

Yet again, it's not worth the cost premium for fuel savings alone. I wonder what kind of maintence will be requried for the battery in 15 years.


The Volt will be driven by electricity stored in a large T-shaped lithium-ion battery pack running the length of the car.

If you have to replace it, I bet it will cost a ton based on the above quote.

Will this be the next "green" car, who knows, at 40k it probably won't be as popular as the Prius.

[JohnnyT]

Of course, I also think Johnny is exaggerating the costs to maintain a house per month, even including taxes and insurance for an average home. I don't know anyone who really spends that much, and we've discussed this amongst my friends in detail.

I'm referring to total costs: property taxes, insurance, electricity, sewer, gas, water, phone, cable, operational budget (assuming you set aside money each month to repair appliances, carpet, etc.), cleaning, yard work (have to buy the supplies), security, the list goes on and it's damn near endless.

It adds up quick, and we do that research and compare the cost of living in an average home with living in our cooperatives. You'd be surprised how much you spend each month even if your house is paid off.

[Picklz]

This is on-point - lets keep the discussion to the Volt and not houses, thank you.

A couple of things

1) You are assuming $3.60 / gal, I'm paying more than that today, and what happens if gas goes to $5 or $7/gal 12 months from now?

2) Has the actual price of the vehicle been released yet? I haven't seen anything official (unless I missed it), what if its $30k or 34k?

3) Some people are less worried about the financial aspect and more interested in reducing our dependence on Oil, I don't think it's necessarily bad if the car costs a little more overall if that means we aren't relying on other countries to keep things rolling so to speak.

[ZoomZoom Diva]

$3.60 is a decent approximation of the current price of regular unleaded, which is the fuel we are looking at for comparison purposes. Personally, I would not consider a huge increase in the price of gasoline to be a prudent financial model. What happens if gas prices recede to $2.50 or $3?

Also, time value of money is not considered in the model, which allows for some upside risk. The pricing is the preliminary pricing provided by GM.

While it is true that people may look to reasons other than financial to buy a Volt, actual oil savings depend on how much oil is used to manufacture and bring the Volt to market compared to a more traditional car. It might be better to just find ways to drive less to save money and reduce oil dependence.

[LASERBLUE135]

Some people are less worried about the financial aspect and more interested in reducing our dependence on Oil, I don't think it's necessarily bad if the car costs a little more overall if that means we aren't relying on other countries to keep things rolling so to speak.

That's the big point here. This car costs a ton in R&D. Honda has those CCX's or whatever that cost AT LEAST $200,000 to build each. But that's the price of new technology. It's worth it in the end. I'm not going to buy one, but for the sake of technology I hope a bunch of people with more money than myself do.

[Picklz]

Personally, I would not consider a huge increase in the price of gasoline to be a prudent financial model. What happens if gas prices recede to $2.50 or $3

You don't think with the state of the US Economy, the instability in the middle east, and worldwide oil consumption ramping up that increased gas prices aren't a serious possibility? I dont think even a few years ago people would have believed $3.70-$4.00/gallon gas. Most of the world already pays a lot more, I don't see why it won't happen here.

Actual oil use to produce the Volt is a valid argument and one I don't really know the answer to. I agree at $40k the volt is too rich for my blood, but like Kyle said the early adopters are paying for the R&D, hopefully in the next generation or two the technology gets better and cheaper.

[Workdawg]

At the time of unveiling, the Volt project had been in existence for less than a year. The Volt was targeted to cost around US$30,000. As of April 2008, General Motors Vice Chairman of Global Product Development Robert Lutz was quoted as saying that the realistic unsubsidised price had risen to US$48,000[52][53], that he reckoned that US$40,000 might be possible, without making any profit, and that only government tax incentives could take the price tag nearer to US$30,000. When asked directly about the price later, Lutz indicated that this was a misquote - and said "The answer is that we don’t know."[54] As of August 2008, General Motors Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Rick Wagoner was quoted saying that the price of the Volt would likely be in "the mid to high 30's", suggesting a price of more than US$5,000 more than originally targeted.

So possibly mid 30s AFTER tax incentives?

Adjusting the numbers to reflect a big increase in gas prices, also it looks like this:

Car MSRP:
Toyota Yaris = $12,000
Chevy Volt = $35,000

Cost to operate a Yaris for 1 year:
15,000miles / 30mpg = 500 gallons
500 gallons * $5 = $2500 a year

Number of years to make up cost diff:
$35,000 - $12,000 = 23,000
23,000 / 2,500 = 9.2 years


I agree that there are benefits to creatign no emmisions and reducing our dependency on oil, but according to this LINK (http://www.eia.doe.gov/basics/quickoil.html), the country uses approximately 390 million gallons of gas a day. Wikipedia also indicates that the initial run of the Volt will be 10,000 cars and it will remain a low production car for 2011-2015.

So, for the first year, assuming EVERY Volt sells, we'd be saving:

500 gallons per year, per person / 365 days = 1.37 gallons per day, per person
1.37 (rounded) * 10,000 chevy volts = 13698.63 gallons per day saved.

13698.63 / 390m = 0.00003 = 0.0035% gas saved

If we extrapolate that chevy increases production, but still limits it, to say 20,000 a year for the next 5 years, and that every car sells, there are now 110,000 Volts on the road.

1.37 gals saved per day * 110,000 volts = 150684.93 gallons saved per day.

150684.93 / 390m = 0.0386% gas saved.

Still very insignificant.

390,000 1% of US consumption / 1.3698.63 gals saved per day = 284,700 volts

Based on those numbers, it'd take 284,700 cars using NO gas to reduce our gasoline consumption 1%.

The gas savings are a TINY drop in the bucket. I'm not saying it's not a good start, but it'll take A LOT more for this to make any kind of difference.

[dmention7]

Oh, it will take a lot more than one car for sure. And a lot more than just passenger vehicles too. But you know what they say about the journey of 1000 miles beginning with a single step.

[mazdamn02]

I'm surprised that this runs on lithium ion batteries. Does anyone know what the prius and other hybrids use? From what i know Lithium Ion batteries are terrible for applications like cars...

[YSOSLO]

Pete, I think you're exaggerating that many of us are spending $200 a week on gas for a single car. At $4 a gallon, that's 50 gallons of gas, which at even 20 miles a gallon is 1000 miles a week. That's HUGE amounts of driving. Maybe $200 a month is more like it.

Yeah James, I did mean to say $200 per month for gas. There were a lot of good points made since my last post above and sure, there are all sorts of ways to come up with cheaper options. Personally I wouldn't be caught dead in a Yaris...they just don't do anything for me. I'd rather ride a moped.... And yes, there are certainly more expensive options out there than the Volt too, and that's why I believe if Chevy can come in with a base price of around $35K and with options maxing out around $40K I think they'll have some decent sales of this thing. There are lots of different reasons why people buy one car or another. I'm sure all of you driving a MS3 didn't all buy it for the same reason and you sure didn't buy it to maximize your gas mileage. Like many of you mentioned already, this is a step in the right direction, especially for an American company. No new equipment needed by the consumer (like a natural gas pump installed in your garage for the NG vehicles that are being developed on the East coast) and a decent amount of interior volume (unlike the Honda Insight of old) and it looks like a "normal" car, unlike the Prius (although with so many on the roads now we're used to them at this point). Hopefully the reviews will be good enough on the Volt to get people other than the Chevy-only folks into the dealers' doors, so the other companies out there realize this is the type of thing that might truly revolutionize our use of fossil fuels.

*James in one of your posts above you were wondering about what happens when the battery goes dead, and the articles I've read on this car indicate that the batter provides ALL of the power for the vehicle and is good for about 40 miles. Once the battery is drained, a small gasoline engine kicks on to power the battery for an additional 300 mile range.*

[dmention7]

I think James meant, what happens when the battery loses the ability to hold a charge.

[ZoomZoom Diva]

For whatever reason there is no charge in the batteries and the engine is not running. I know if you're within range of electric outlets you can plug it in, but what if you're not? The ability to jump start a gasoline engine is an important feature to me.

You may need a higher amp circuit to fuel the car, or at least multiple circuits if you are plugging in each side of the car to charge it, depending on the draw. Personally, I like the idea of having a CNG-type appliance in my garage to fuel my car, and would rather see energy move towards a personal energy independence model as well as a national one.

[dmention7]

i can't think of any reason why you wouldn't be able to jumpstart the engine. More than likely, however, the car would simply not allow you to deplete so severely that there wasn't enough juice left to start the engine.

Compared to actually driving the car, starting the small gasoline engine would require a miniscule amount of draw.

[Workdawg]

That makes sense Jay, the gas engine goes on a little bit early so you don't completely deplete the battery. However that doesn't stop people from leaving accessories on to drain it.

[dmention7]

True, but a car with that much electronic integration should be smart enough to start up the engine before the battery gets too low, or just cut off power to accessories. Either way, it's a relatively simple problem to solve.

[spek1098]

I'm surprised that this runs on lithium ion batteries. Does anyone know what the prius and other hybrids use? From what i know Lithium Ion batteries are terrible for applications like cars...

Most hybrids like the Prius and Escape uses nickel-metal hydride (Ni-MH) batteries. I think the factor that make people think Lithium Ion (Li-ion) are bad for cars is their cost. They actually have a higher energy to weight ratio and last longer then Ni-MH batteries. Li-ion batteries are the only batteries good enough to handle electric only vehicles (think Tesla Roadster).