The Domestic Terraforming Thread (aka Gardening for Geeks)

[dmention7]

So, Wired had an article about "domestic terraforming" this month, and some of the tips really got my geek sense tingling. I've been wanting to get something going in the way of a small, efficient vegetable garden going for awhile now, but somehow it never gets done. So my goal for this summer/fall is to complete the preparations for a small patio garden for next spring, and possibly a larger raised-bed garden.

Anyone have any nice gardens to show off, or any knowledge to drop? Personally, I'm especially interested in urban gardening techniques.... space-efficiency tips, and the like.... but feel free to show off what you've got!

[mndsm]

Find a pot head. SERIOUSLY. Them dudes are the Macguyver of gardening. Anyone that can grow 10's of thousands of dollars in herbal supplements in a North Minneapolis basement has got skills.

[VTEC8YA]

Im running just a 40 inch planter box that I grow Radishes in. I also have a single Habanero plant growing in a ordinary flowering pot. Both just using some organic soil.

[YSOSLO]

The #1 key that you have the least amount of control over when it comes to a garden is sunlight. If your patio has sunlight from 9-5 you'll have a fighting chance, but if you're on the north, east or west side of the house, then you've got your work cut out for you. Different types of vegetables have different needs with regard to the method you'll likely want to use to grow them. What are you considering growing Jay?

[Matt D.]

The #1 key that you have the least amount of control over when it comes to a garden is sunlight. If your patio has sunlight from 9-5 you'll have a fighting chance, but if you're on the north, east or west side of the house, then you've got your work cut out for you.
This. I tried planting a garden last summer in an area that previously had one, but it failed I'm guessing from lack of sunlight because of so many trees around it.

[mOjO]

Identify what you want to plant first. Then if your planting area has mixed sunlight, plant accordingly. Tomatoes and peppers require lots of sun... root veggies not so much. Herbs are a mixed bag.

You'll need to replace the existing soil, or heavily saturate it with nicely composted soil. Pick up a few giant bags of coffee grounds from your nearest Starbucks. Adding that to the soil will attract worms. Worms are good.

There are some plants which naturally ward off damaging insects. I don't recollect what they are...>.>

Don't grow watermelons... or pumpkins.

Gardens are awesome, until you have 10,000 tomatoes to eat in 2 days. I'd suggest figuring out a way to store what you can't consume to use later. Friend ended up making a crap-load of tomato paste that he then used throughout the rest of the year to make his home made pasta sauce. Canning. Freezing. Drying herbs etc.

[Big Nate]

I grow herd in my garden. Good old GREEN living.

[Big Nate]

Also compost is really cheap at the Anoka county compost site in Coon Rapids. under $20 a yard.

[mOjO]

Free in Burnsville. >.>

But the coffee grounds starbucks has are FREE.

[ZoomZoom Diva]

Marigolds are effective at repelling many insects and critters. Planting tomatoes and basil together also has some effect for repelling bad things.

[spek1098]

Agree that knowing what you want to plant, then knowing the requirements of those plants are the first two steps needed.

If you’re going with compost, drainage will be an issue; roots need air as well as water, so mixing in 10-25% perlite depending on how dense your compost is and the drainage requirements of your plants. If you’re going organic, compost is the way to go. Mix in some worm castings, bat guano, along with some manure and your plants nutrient needs should be met for the growing season.

[dmention7]

Good suggestions so far. I think I'm going to give things a trial run with some container plants to see how well they do on the patio. It's on the east side of the house, but it gets a ton of sun during the spring and summer months.

Soil is not so much a concern since I know the soil here is shit... I'd be doing a raised-bed planter of some sort for the long term, or at least some larger elevated planters on the patio. But I'm all about the geek tips on how to keep things as self-sufficient as possible. I generate a fair amount of coffee grounds myself--do they need any treatment, or do you just dump them in with your soil? Also working on building a few rain barrels this year, and I'd like to build a compost tumbler of some sort.

I dinno, every time I start reading about gardening though, I get overwhelmed. Might just have to start digging in (har har har) and seeing how things work out. That said, anyone have any interesting setups they'd care to share?

[DrWebster]

Starting in containers is definitely the way to go. Nelly got some of her plants going in mid-March from seed, sitting in the window in the office at home (eastern exposure). Now they're big enough to be outside all the time, and I'm expecting to have to get some big-ass pots for the tomato plants by July.

[YSOSLO]

Several of my co-workers are all about growing tomatoes in various versions of the topsy-turvy hanging tomato planters. They work well for smaller varieties, but have a tough time with the heirlooms etc. I've also seen the same type of thing for strawberries at Home Depot. I've never tried either though, so I can't speak from personal experience on them. We've had great luck with cherry tomatoes in whiskey barrel planters on the south side of the house. Normally we have awesome luck with cucumbers too, but this year they just keep dying (tried twice to plant 6" seedlings we started in the house) for some reason. It's a little bit late to start some types of veggies too. For example, onions, broccoli and sweet peas all do a lot better when planted as soon as the last frost is done (typically early May).

Starting things this time of year, I guess I'd recommend buying some plants at a big box store (as opposed to trying to get seeds going) and using some type of potting soil along with a time-release fertilizer like Osmocote or something along those lines. Jess and I like the Miracle-Gro potting soil for our hanging baskets and they always do well. We also buy some bags of compost with aged manure (read: doesn't stink) to enrich the soil in our garden and planters.

Also, since you mentioned a rain barrel...I made my own last year and I love it! I bought a 50 gallon plastic barrel off eBay for around $30 shipped, and then I bought a plastic pond screen to keep the mosquitoes out of the barrel and allow the downspout to drain into the barrel, along with additional parts here (http://www.atlantarainbarrels.com/). I much preferred a 90 degree lever (it's a 90 degree turn from completely off to completely open/on) to a traditional faucet handle that requires a dozen turns or so to open and close, and it works great for filling a watering can. The plants seem to do much better with rain water vs. tap water imo. There were only a couple of times last Summer when my rain barrel ever came close to going dry (it never actually did though) and that's supplying water to a 10x12 garden along with a few container plantings. If you're just doing a few containers, then you could probably just stick a 5 gallon bucket or two under your downspouts to collect enough to keep your plants well-watered.

[dmention7]

Yeah, this year will just be seedlings bought from a store unfortunately. Gotta do some research on what's going to thrive in the locations I have.

As for rain barrels, I'd like to be able to collect most of the runoff from the roof. We have piss-poor drainage in our yard, and short of some major landscaping and/or concrete work, it should be a good way to keep water off the foundation, and provide watering for plants (we've got a lot of flower beds around our house as well)

[ZoomZoom Diva]

Check your local ordinances before using rain barrels. While I believe a single simple rain barrel is legal in city of Minneapolis, the number, size and location is often governed by local ordinances.

[dmention7]

Minneapolis actually strongly encourages their use. They sell them at reduced cost to residents every spring and have tons of resources encouraging them. I can't find anything about the city restricting their use... can't really think of any reason why they would do that either--they cut down on runoff into the sewer system and reduce water consumption.

[ZoomZoom Diva]

Runoff into the storm sewer system is not necessarily a bad thing. Overcollection of rain water can prevent enough water from making it to the various waterways, causing shortages in other places. Also, some places have issues with them for purely aesthetic reasons.

[AJ]

We should collect, bottle, and sell the rain to California.

[YSOSLO]

Here's a pic of our garden from last year, taken around the end of June/early July.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_aPYPSPYYNkU/SmMwC9LgOyI/AAAAAAAACOg/n5ACK3UzTLI/s640/100_2962.JPG

And Ella and me planting in the whiskey barrel planter:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_aPYPSPYYNkU/SjEw8k83oUI/AAAAAAAABwQ/qoAdXOn1Ro0/s640/100_2782.JPG

[dmention7]

Nice. We've got a half-barrel planter on our back patio that looks just like that, but it's seen better days.

Do you have any problems with squirrels or bunnies bogarting your veggies, what with everything being planted at ground level and without a fence?

[DrWebster]

Problems with animals eating your plants can be easily resolved by the use of chicken wire connected to the end of a plugged-in extension cord.

[YSOSLO]

Our backyard is fully fenced because of the pool, and I have a pellet gun that takes care of any offenders that can't take the hint. Rabbits are rough, but they tend to avoid scents that make them nervous, so we've used dog hair or human hair clippings around the edges of the garden if they get too inquisitive. We've honestly really never had an issue with them in the backyard though....they've chewed the shit out of the foliage on some of the plants in our front and side yard, but not the back.

[dmention7]

I've heard marigolds are great at keeping the bunnies away.

[YSOSLO]

I don't know about bunnies, but I've definitely heard they keep away some types of insects. There's some good info here (http://toadstoolponds.wordpress.com/2007/12/07/why-plant-marigolds-in-your-vegetable-garden).

[dmention7]

Got my hippie geek on tonight. The overflow hose is probably too small but oh well. Our house is pretty small, so I don't even know if it will ever get near overflowing.

1120


Going to get started on a compost tumbler next, I think.

[AJ]

Where did you get a drum like that, we have a corner in the back yard I think something like this would be very fitting in.

[dmention7]

If you do a little googling or look on CL, you can find them all over the place for $30 or so. Make sure it's a food-grade container, not something that held nasty chemicals. I got mine off ebay for $50 shipped because there was no way one was going to fit in my car.

[YSOSLO]

That barrel looks great Jay! Really goes well with the color of your house. I think you'll be surprised at how quickly the barrel will fill up though. A light sprinkle for 10 minutes and ours is full, although we've got a pretty large amount of roof draining into that downspout.

[AJ]

Can you get them at local stores like Lowes, HD, Mynards, or even an ACE?

[DrWebster]

My dad built one of these for the garden, he just used a Rubbermaid garbage can.

[dmention7]

My dad used Rubbermaid garbage cans for a couple of his too. However, they are not designed to hold up to having hundreds of gallons of water inside for extended periods. And the really large/durable trash cans cost more than a plastic 55 gal drum.

To answer AJ, no I haven't seen these at retail stores. Generally they only carry pre-built rain barrels that cost upwards of $120, but the drums you can buy are usually industrial food grade drums.

[Picklz]

Another thing to check out, a lot of times you can get used brine buckets for water softeners from places like culligan, commers, etc for cheap or free when they get rid of them, good rinse with some bleach and they would be great for holding water.

[AJ]

So we actually founds 2 options at the HD in Maple Grove tonight. I've thought one of these would look nice in the corner of the back of the house where the mud room and kitchen meet. It's got some pipes and the hose attachment and it just so blah looking. We went up to HD tonight and saw two rain bucket options with built in tap/spout. One was $60 and the other $90 I think, one just bigger than the other. We have had blocks, dirt, and mulch for a while already (year +) and now we can use it. We picked up the mesh weed guard shit for that area and the project begins. We will finish the area with mulch, a potted plant, and maybe a smaller raised garden of smaller items that might not need much sun. Otherwise we also want to use the collected water for her small 10x10 garden already out back. I uess we will see how this works out.

[Big Nate]

Call some local car wash suppliers. I got a barrel just like the one Jay has for free from them. Can't remember the name right now but I will get it.

And Jay stop being a wussy the barrel can contain whatever just as long as you rinse it out shit will be fine. I mean have you ever tested the chemical comp of rain?????shit is nasty.


HHHHMMMMM chemical engineer should test the chemical comp of rain and inform us all.

[dmention7]

Heh, trust me... some of the stuff that comes in these barrels, you do NOT want anywhere near your plants, especially if you plan on eating them.

But you are right. Rain in many areas of the country has tested at alarmingly high levels of dihydrogen monoxide. I have not personally tested the rain coming off my roof, but I suspect it may also contain DHMO. Check out this website for some scary info: http://www.dhmo.org/

[YSOSLO]

...great...something ELSE to be afraid of. Gotta love the U.S.A....aka fear everything you don' t have direct control over.

[dmention7]

So the drain hose is apparently fine the kind of volume that comes out of that downspout.


I've got a question though. I've noticed this year that a bunch of our plants are shooting up, blooming intensely, and then a few days later the entire plant starts to droop over. Almost like the flowering stems shot up too fast and then the plant can't sustain them? The only thing I can think of is that our soil is kind of dense and clayish, so maybe the roots aren't able to penetrate deep/wide enough to support the kind of growth the plant is doing...

Oh, and google is not my friend on this one. When I search "drooping plants", the only hits I get are threads from places like forums.marijuana.org and grassworld.com =/

[YSOSLO]

What kind of plants are you talking about Jay? If you're referring to tomato plants, it might be that they need support (i.e. tomato cages) to hold the weight of the growth. Different types of veggies have different needs, so it's hard to generalize. Sorry. Details please.

[dmention7]

Oh sorry, these are not veggies. I'm not sure of the exact type of plant... just some various flowering perennials in our backyard, though I've also noticed it on some daylillies in our front yard. The previous owners planted a whole crapton of plants, so I'm not sure all what's there, but I can take a few pics if that helps.

[YSOSLO]

Yeah, pics would help a lot.

[Big Nate]

The flower portion of most plants is just a one shot deal. Then they die off and shrivel up. Not the entire plant just the shoot that has the flowers. My hostas do that all the time.

[dmention7]

Yeah I know that... this is more like the entire plant just shot up, bloomed like crazy, then keeled over all in the span of a few days. Here's a pic of the main one I was talking about... I'm thinking maybe I need to split it out this fall so it doesn't try to grow as big?

[YSOSLO]

I don't know wtf that hot mess in the middle is, but the plant with the pink flowers down front is called "coral bells" and the taller ones in back with the spikey-looking leaves sticking out horizontally are lillies fo some sort. They look like tiger lillies, but they're yellow instead of orange, so their some other variety. I'm guessing the crazy thing in the middle that got huge on you is some sort of weed...lol

[dmention7]

lol no, the "hot mess" in the middle is actually the one I'm talking about. It had these nice light blue flowers for a couple of days, but then it kind of started flopping over and the leaves turned a bit grayish. It looks like it's maybe starting to recover, it's just funny how tall and gangly it got all of the sudden. But who knows, maybe it actually is a weed, lol. I didn't plant any of this stuff, and I still barely remember most of what's there until it starts to grow and bloom.