Color and perception, salvaged from the chatbox...

[Workdawg]

Sort of philosophy question...
How do we know that everyone sees colors the same way?
It's generally assumed that colors look identical to everyone, but what if they don't?
There's really no way to tell... when we are learning to speak, we are taught what colors are what, but that just becomes a frame of reference for our own vision.
What if what looks like blue to me, actually looks like red to Jay?


The point is, what if the sensation of "red" is different to different people
I know what red looks like, but how do I know that when you see an apple that it looks the same in your mind as mine

 

[JustROLLIN]

It doesn't. People will likely not see the same shades of individual colors. People have varying amounts of rods and cones which will likely lead to varying shades of colors. And if someone is color blind they find that out pretty quickly cause when everyone in the class says something is red and they think its brown, thats an issue.

PS - My explanation is likely not 100% correct, so maybe someone with more knowledge can expand.

 

[dmention7]

That brings up the related question of, how would you describe the color red to someone who was unable to differentiate red from other colors?

 

[Big Nate]

We will never know for real if the color red to me is the same color red if i would look through you eyes.

 

[Workdawg]

That brings up the related question of, how would you describe the color red to someone who was unable to differentiate red from other colors?

That's an excellent question also. My answer would depend on what colors they could see. If they can see yellow and orange, my answer would be an orange that's less yellow... i guess. It would be tough no doubt.

 

[mndsm]

This makes me wonder. Say someone gets an eye transplant, so they're seeing with someone elses eyes, literally. Do you suppose that they see red, different than they saw red before? (This is assuming that the transplantee was sighted at some point before the new eye was needed).

 

[Big Nate]

No Tom it is your drain that translates the eye. So you would still see the same colors.


Color is only (as the thread states) a perception. You only see what your brain percieves. You can not see things differently unless your brain is different. Hence you will still see blue that same no matter whos eyes you have. even if you were to see a pic exatliy the way someone else sees it you would still see blue as blue.

 

[dmention7]

Good question. There is some evidence that a certain amount of image pre-processing happens in the eye itself, but most of that has to do with simple pattern recognition, and not actual interpretation. So I would say that it would probably have very little effect, especially as the brain is pretty adept at fitting unusual inputs into its established model of the world.

An analogy would be that most digital cameras do a certain amount of compression and/or other low-level manipulations to images before they are stored. So while several different cameras may record images that are technically different, the actual interpretation of the image would be mostly unaffected.

 

[JustROLLIN]

Where did you read that Jay. I thought I read something that an individual's eye does in fact come into play when seeing various colors. Again I refer back to the rods and cones, I was fairly certain the actual eye and the number or quality of rods and cones effects what/how colors are seen.

Plus, and correct me if I am wrong here, but colors are only visible due to the dust in the air. So, I dont know if different areas of the world and their conditions would have a direct effect on specific colors or hues seen.

 

[dmention7]

Well yeah, you're absolutely correct that colors are detected in the eye. But the question being tossed around is one of perception and interpretation, rather than rote detection. So, if we know that the cone and rod cells in they eye give a certain physiological response to seeing a certain wavelength of light, then the question is whether different people's brains create different representations of that color in their minds.


As for your second question, no it has nothing to do with dust in the air. What we see as different colors is due to different photosensitive chemical compounds in your rod and cone cells selectively absorbing different wavelengths of light, and the stimuli these molecules provide to the cells as they absorb light energy.

 

[Big Nate]

Jay, you are only a little right with your second answer. Color comes from the sun/other light source. The light will shine on the apple or whatever and the apple will absorb all the colored light rays except the red ones. It will reflect those back to your eye. The eye then receives the light and sends a message to your brain.

Put it like this the rod and cones on your retina are like a blank paper. You will paint red in a dot and green in a dot. The optic nerve will then tell your brain that (like you said) the rods and cones are seeing a light wave that your brain knows is red in one area and a light wave that your brain knows is green in another. Color blindness comes from the fact that your rods and cones can not tell the difference between (in Humans) red and green. Thus your eye will only see all the other colors.

So I geuss all of that was to tell you your wrong but then to confirm that you are a little right. LOL

 

[dmention7]

Yeah, I guess I sort of misread what Joe was saying and answered a question he didn't really ask... heh

 

[Workdawg]

Interesting video about this topic...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hvDdhgdxeQI

 

[dmention7]

Knowing better than to watch a video titled "Hentai Explained" at work, I'm at a loss as to why you necro'd a 4 year old thread about color perception to post that. lol

 

[YSOSLO]

lol...I didn't notice the dates, but I should have known better than to think Joe was back on here again. I miss hearing from him on here though.

 

[Workdawg]

Oh damn... that is the wrong video link... my bad... and now I can't find the video I meant to post...

 

[mOjO]

so much fail in so little thread real estate.

 

[dmention7]

so much fail in so little thread real estate.

There, I just doubled the amount of fail!

 

[mOjO]

I hate you so much.