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Black Gold: Tops $130/barrell

J

JustROLLIN

Guest
Just curious what everyone's thoughts are on the topic of oil. I know this will likely lead to some interesting discussion/arguments, so I figured it was worth bringing up. Oil just topped the $130 mark and does not look to have a slowdown in sight. Discuss....
 
AJ

AJ

110 HP of FURY!
Hear my words, the gas woll go up a tad yet, but then it will break and come back down. There is a lot more impact on todays pricing by the futures trading apparently and we may be in for a rough summer, but it will break and fall, and continue to fall at similar rates to which it has increased in the fall.
 
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spek1098

Guest
As long as gas prices don't go up faster then the average Joe can adapt to them, it's a good thing. It makes the previously more expensive alternative options (solar, wind, nuclear) relatively more affordable while spurring the market to adopt techs that conserve energy and encourages development of new options all without government intervention.

Our country subsidizes the world wide oil industry by the fact that our foreign policy basically revolves around protecting supplies of oil. For starters the Iraq war wouldn't have been started if it wasn't located in the middle of most of the world's supply, so there is a indirect $200 billion subsidy for the oil industry. I could dig up more examples if you like, but that should prove my point.
 
J

JustROLLIN

Guest
spek1098 said:
As long as gas prices don't go up faster then the average Joe can adapt to them, it's a good thing. It makes the previously more expensive alternative options (solar, wind, nuclear) relatively more affordable while spurring the market to adopt techs that conserve energy and encourages development of new options all without government intervention.

Our country subsidizes the world wide oil industry by the fact that our foreign policy basically revolves around protecting supplies of oil. For starters the Iraq war wouldn't have been started if it wasn't located in the middle of most of the world's supply, so there is a indirect $200 billion subsidy for the oil industry. I could dig up more examples if you like, but that should prove my point.
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I agree, to a point... I think its a positive that we are being "forced" into alternative energies, but I also think the time of implementation is waaay too long. So yes, its good we are looking at other options, but what do we do in the down time? Pay $5/gal while we wait for the hydrogen cars to arrive. Then, when they finally arrive we dont have any money to buy because we have been spending $5/gal to power our "monolithic" vehicles... Meh.
 
dmention7

dmention7

Hater
Well, even beyond automobiles, there is a fair amount of oil being used for general power generation. Every gallon not used to heat our homes for example is a gallon that can be used for other purposes.
 
J

JustROLLIN

Guest
AJ said:
Hear my words, the gas woll go up a tad yet, but then it will break and come back down. There is a lot more impact on todays pricing by the futures trading apparently and we may be in for a rough summer, but it will break and fall, and continue to fall at similar rates to which it has increased in the fall.
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First off, what exactly is a tad? GoldmanSachs is predicting prices as high as $200 per barrell and they tend to have some fairly talented people. Also, from what I have been reading the futures traders are not impacting the market nearly as badly as most are claiming. *cough* government *cough*
 
J

JustROLLIN

Guest
dmention7 said:
Well, even beyond automobiles, there is a fair amount of oil being used for general power generation. Every gallon not used to heat our homes for example is a gallon that can be used for other purposes.
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Yeah, but you still deal with the exact same issues. Its not something where the nation can flip a switch and suddenly we are powered by GE solar/wind power. Its a gradual process that will take decades to accomplish. Again, I am happy we finally focusing on it, but how realistic is it to think the solution is anywhere in the near future?
 
dmention7

dmention7

Hater
Depends on what you mean by near future. I would think that over a 5-year timeframe, there is room for significant change to be made in where our power comes from. Especially since many of those solutions can be adopted at the household level without waiting for the giant power companies to make major shifts.

But are we going to see these technologies scale in real-time with energy prices? Not likely.
 
Z

ZoomZoom Diva

New Member
While I agree government is a major factor in the current prices by both prohibiting drilling and refining capacity and by allowing a monopolistic system to be put in place, the speculators are adding a large quantity of false demand to the system that is also inflating prices.
 
J

JustROLLIN

Guest
dmention7 said:
Depends on what you mean by near future. I would think that over a 5-year timeframe, there is room for significant change to be made in where our power comes from. Especially since many of those solutions can be adopted at the household level without waiting for the giant power companies to make major shifts.

But are we going to see these technologies scale in real-time with energy prices? Not likely.
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Maybe you and I are talking about different things. I dont understand what changes can be made even on an individual household level in that amount of time. Are you talking like individual power from solar? I just dont see the US public adopting these sources due to cost, construction, etc.
 
S

spek1098

Guest
ZoomZoom Diva said:
While I agree government is a major factor in the current prices by both prohibiting drilling and refining capacity and by allowing a monopolistic system to be put in place, the speculators are adding a large quantity of false demand to the system that is also inflating prices.
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Yea, I hope that is true, because if it is they will eventually cause a relative bust in the market kind of like what’s happening to housing right now. With the drilling, some things are more important to me then how fat my wallet is or isn't. Take a trip to the BWCA and you might come away with a new appreciation for untouched wilderness.

The house just past a bill, like 400-80 or something, to allow the government to sue OPEC members as they can sue US based corps for monopolistic practices. As it is with all the best ideas, like stem cell research, are most wise and exalted leader is threatening to veto it.
 
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S

spek1098

Guest
JustROLLIN said:
Maybe you and I are talking about different things. I dont understand what changes can be made even on an individual household level in that amount of time. Are you talking like individual power from solar? I just dont see the US public adopting these sources due to cost, construction, etc.
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Conservation maybe? They say there is alot of possiblity for energy savings there. Those costs are relitive remember, so it is quickly becoming more and more economical to install such systems all while the prices of these systems are coming down with the increased sales and production of such systems. Thank you Ford for your contributions to mass production.
 
Z

ZoomZoom Diva

New Member
The act to sue OPEC is symbolism over substance, since the law would lack any power of the members of OPEC (which are foreign entities). You cannot hold other soverieign nations to unilateral U.S. legislation, and if OPEC decides not to play, that would simply make matters worse.

That said, I grew up surrounded by wilderness, and while preservation is important and something that is really great to have, the need for affordable and reliable sources of energy is essential. It simply is not feasible to try to preserve everything, and it is possible to extract the necessary resources in ways that keep the impact to a minimum.
 
S

spek1098

Guest
The entire problem is that oil would never reach the lower 48. It would be destine for the open market, ie Asia, on top of taking over a decade to reach any nominal levels of output. Doesn't make much sense to me.

On top of that, there is something to be said about leaving it in the ground as a reserve for the US. I don't think anyone has a clue where the US and the world will be in fifty years, and there could come a point where we really NEED that oil, rather then trying to use it now as a buffer to lower world oil prices slightly.

Yea, I understand that it's only symbolic, but it's something when I don't see much else they could do. You listed a few other things the goverment could do, ie with allowing monopolies. I would like to understand how they have allowed this? You mean by allowing all these different fuel standards there by fragmenting the market and allow monopolistic control?
 
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