General interest- Goodwill wars!

[YSOSLO]

We will need an impartial jury to help write the challenges... and since you won't able to participate regularly, maybe you and James can collaborate on what the challenges could be.

You bring up an interesting point Tom. It seems like such an obvious thing, but someone is going to have to come up with the "machines" to be built, so it makes sense that the judges for an upcoming event would be the ones to make that happen. Since our group loves to hash things out beforehand, perhaps we should open up the discussion a bit regarding the categories to be judged and ideas of potential machines to be made.

I would imagine first and foremost a machine capable of performing the task it's supposed to perform on a scale from 1-10 would be appropriate (in my opinion, of course, yet open for discussion) along with perhaps a category for appearance/clean-look/style and maybe some sort of point bonus or multiplier based on how much time is left before "time's up" when you've completed your machine. So just to throw out an example of what I'm thinking:

Let's say the task is lauching/throwing a racket ball the greatest distance. If Team A makes a machine that launches the ball 100 feet (to keep the math simple) and the B team's machine catapults the ball 80 feet, the A team would get 100% of the "accomplished-the-task" 50 possible points and Team B would get 80% of the points for that (40). Then perhaps another 10 points for the judge's opinion of which machine looks a lot nicer/cleaner/cooler than the other teams, so if we think Team A's looks really clean (wires routed nicely etc), however Team B's is really clean AND has some design style to it as well, then we might give 6 points to Team A for cleanliness and 10 points to Team B for appearance. And if we gave both teams 4 hours to complete their machine and Team A took 3.5 hours while Team B took the whole 4 hours, then perhaps we'd say we'd appropriate 5 points per 15 minutes LESS than the final time as a bonus, so Team A would get 10 bunus points, while Team B would get none. So the final breakdown would be:

Team A: 50 + 6 + 10 = 66
Team B: 40 + 10 + 0 = 50 = Losers

There's certainly room for improvement here, so let's talk about how this should work, as well as ideas on what types of tasks to do. Another idea I had was a boat race (up to the contestants on method of propulsion) the length of our pool or a machine that will lift the most weight 6 feet high.

 

[mndsm]

Pete, you bring up a LOT of excellent points. I love the idea of using the pool, perhaps even do some sort of water war or something. The problem is, I'm a bit torn. On one hand, I want to help design this contest, and design the challenges. The other part of me REALLY wants to compete in the event. I know Adrian said he'd be down for judging. I'd be happy to help you all get it started, but I would need to step away once it came to actually designing the challenges. If you're down for this, I'd love to discuss it more.

 

[YSOSLO]

Heck yeah Tom. I was simply trying to get some basic discussions opened up regarding how we should score with the idea that the judges will probably change from event to event depending on numbers and availability of people, but with some good firm guidelines on the scoring categories it will lend continuity to the series as a whole. And with regard to the actual machines, I figured it should be up to the judges on the day of the event but I thought it would be nice to have an idea of what kinds of things the builders might be interested/capable of building so we have a general idea of what people are thinking with regard to this type of event.

 

[mndsm]

I like the idea of throwing a thing a given distance, and I like the idea of a boat battle. Two solid ones right off the cuff. We would still go battle bots, dragster machines, the possibilities are truly endless. I like the scoring system too. SCC did a system similar, where the top score got a full 100, and each score below that got points based on a curver. So lets say top score was 10 feet. That one gets 100 points. Next closest gets 8.5 feet. Since they scored 85% of first place, they get 85% of the points and so on. Style/excecution would probably be based on a 10 point scale, with the judges awarding points for creativity, execution, etc etc.

 

[mndsm]

Also, I'm beginning to think we have to have a small video production crew. Very grassroots style, for Youtube. I imagine watching us swear at each other and say mean things could be funny.

 

[mndsm]

So, anyone had any more thoughts on this? I know the topic of cellphones being banned was brought up, and I'm on the fence about this one. On one hand, I consider my cellphone a neccesity. I don't really have another means of communication, and it's pretty much something I have to have on me. Another thing to consider is if we limit the number of shoppers that go out into the field (like Junkyard Wars did) we're going to want to give them the opportunity to communicate with the member back at base camp. Unlike Junkyard wars, we aren't going to be in range for radios to work, so, that leaves a cell phone. The other part of me says yes, ban them, simply because 90% of the players of this game are going to be packing 3g smartphones, and will be able to abuse the internet as an idea source. The game isn't about cheating and using the internet, it's about how smart a team can be with a given amount of cash. This part of me also says it would be pretty easy to have a judge eyeballing the teams as they are out in the field or on the phone, since it looks like we're only really going to need maybe 3 judges, one to watch each team, and a 3rd to break ties and whatnot. That way we could easily keep a judge at basecamp, and send one with each shopping crew.

Speaking of shopping crews.... I was thinking of this. Seems that going to "a" Goodwill would work out pretty well, one for each team. Best bet would probably be to map out all the bigger thrift stores in the metro, determine a location for the building, and then pull stores out of a hat. Shop time doesn't start until you walk in the door. That way, you have a little time to discuss on the ride there, you don't get to see what's on the store shelves beforehand (to prevent more cheating) and no one gets to bitch at the other team about sandbagging, or picking the "good" store. It's all random. Takes a lot of arguement out if it.

#3- Hardware. I'm not talking components of the actual machine itself, I'm talking stuff like screws and nuts and bolts. Seems to me that this probably should not be part of the actual budget, since that could drastically change the game, and possibly unfairly. At the same time, there probably should be a limitation on how much hardware affects the overall use of said machine... for example, If I were to build a slingshot contraption, I probably shouldn't be using 4" lag bolts as the uprights on it. I know there are a lot of electronics/other recyclers out there that end up with a LOT of that stuff in a bin that they end up throwing/turning in... maybe we look into getting a hold of one of those bins and calling it good? Perhaps all the players pitch in a few bucks (5-10$ at the most) and we all make a collective HD/Lowes run and buy a bunch of crap we then share?

4th- Tools. Tools is another one. I know I stated it before, but we need to consider tools. Some people have access to air tools/compressors/welders etc. I think we need to come up with a cohesive system for limiting tools, so that one team does not get an advantage over another simply for being better equipped.

 

[Workdawg]

#1, Allow cellphones for team communication. I'd be okay with the honor system for preventing people from looking crap up on the webs.

#2, yes.

#3, I think a rule that says "fasteners are for fastening only" or something like that would be sufficient to allow that kind of thing to be excluded from the budget and to prevent cheating as you suggest. Or "free stuff isn't to be used as part of the structure/functionality", with judges having ultimate say on if you're abusing the free stuffs.

#4, When the judges come up with the challenge, they can also choose what tools are allowed. Or if we are having a central location for building, then just every brings tools and before we start we make sure that the teams have even tools and restrict access to tolls the other team doesn't have.

 

[mndsm]

#4 that's kind of what I was thinking Dan. I'd be willing to bet AJ would loan out BAG for at least one of these (At least until we set it on fire and Jana bans us all) and it's got plenty of room for this to go down, and has that awesome parking lot in the back for testing/competing. Really all we need is a garage to build in, and a park/something nearby to compete at... since I imagine most of this will involve some sort of projectile.

Another thought, are we only going to want to do this once? Are we want to going to do a series of competitions? Do a "season" perhaps? If so, prizes? Losers buy the winners wings or something, maybe all chip in a 5 spot and the winners take the pot at the end of it? I mean it could be something minimal, or nothing at all... or maybe the losers get gifted with the MNMazda Trophy of Fail... I dinno. Trying to drum up some interest here, since we all know how well my ideas do.

 

[Workdawg]

I think a season, a few events per summer, maybe even a winter one or two, would be cool.

As for prizes, I'd be down for throwing a $5 or $10 extra in as a prize, or buying foods for the winners. Another thing we could consider would be that the winners get to keep both devices, though then you have the issue of who on the team gets to keep them.

 

[mndsm]

I figure let the teams hash out who gets to keep the devices. I don't imagine these are items that most people are going to want to keep in their garages... I figured they'd eventually end up in some sort of parts pool. Maybe if it's a season, winners get to use the losers stuff in the next battle or something like that.

 

[mndsm]

OP updated with currentish rules as I see fit. Feel free to suggest any changes/additions, as I'm probably missing something. Prizes are the big one right now, as I don't want to spend everyones' money, and I can only stuff so many broken decorative geese with LEDs. We also need suggestions for competitions. Pete already inferred that he may allow us to use his pool to host an event, which means a water type battle of some sort is likely. We also have the basic shoot some stuff far, but that could be done in any number of ways/sizes. A speed event for a drag race based contraption could also be interesting.

Basically, I need your help people. I wanna be in on this, and can't in good mind do so unless other people contribute. Wouldn't be fair for me to design all the rules and the challenges, as I'd have a clear advantage.

 

[ZoomZoom Diva]

I will say that I would view the fastener rule quite strictly if no cost is applied to them. Otherwise I see it as too easy to abuse.

I also think an agreed upon tool selection could be interesting, where it is more limited than the most possible.

I like the idea that no points are given for using less than the allotted time. I would rather see good and creative getting the priority over fast.

 

[Workdawg]

I actually really like the idea of using the old devices for parts. Maybe after each "round" everything that can gets disassembled and tossed in a box. The prize for winning the round is that the next round, your team gets to pick out X number of parts from the box. (Before the shopping or after is a good question though).

This would obviously only really work if we did a season type thing.

If we go that route, then we'd really only need to worry about prizes for the whole season. At that point, losers buying the winners dinner wouldn't be nearly as expensive. Only one meal vs 4-5 all summer.

Rules look good. As far as tools is concerned. Maybe allowing for the loaning/sharing of tools between teams where necessary is a good idea. If Eric wants to bring his air tools and compressor, but no one else has them, he has to be willing to share equal time with them.

 

[mndsm]

The only problem I see with equal time is if we're building at the same time, it'd be easy for one team to bogart the good tools until their time is up, basically forcing the other team to sit on its hands til it can get to the grinder. Otherwise, I'd allow that. Really, a lot of these would probably not need to be enforced, as I think we all know each other well enough to not try and cheat, without doing so in amusing fashion. Prizes- yeah, that would be season based. Only one big prize at the end. People would have to be ok with keeping teams for a whole season though.

 

[Workdawg]

I don't really think the timeshare on tools would be an issue. If it comes down to an issue of them both NEEDING the tool at the same time, and they both cannot proceed without said tool, then we could make a time exception for that team. Say both teams need the welder. Team 1 uses it for 20 mins while team 2 does nothing for those twenty minutes. Then when team 1 is done, either they sit for 20 mins, or team 2 gets a 20 min extension.

 

[ZoomZoom Diva]

That starts getting complicated... I would rather keep it simple and just have an agreed upon set of tools that all teams have.

 

[mndsm]

Either or could be useful, though I think I'm with James when we just set equal tools beforehand.

 

[Big Nate]

I agree with the one set of tools thing too.

 

[ZoomZoom Diva]

On the box of parts, my vote would be before shopping and after hearing what the new project is.

 

[StealthSpeed3]

Some ideas for contests/challenges:

Distance - how far can you launch a softball and what means are you going to use to accomplish it? Catapult, cannon, or something else?

WaterWars - How long will it take for you to sink the other team's contraption/creation in a certain amount of time?

drag race/auto rally - we set up a track in an empty parking lot and each team tries to get through the course the fastest (meaning that they would need to be remote controlled). unless you want to let gravity be the determining factor and do something a'la Soapbox derby..