Global Warming - "We're Toast"
- Thread starter Jana
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dmention7
Hater
They sensationalized his quote quite a bit for the article, which bugs me--sensationalized or over-hyped information is much easier for people to dismiss and disregard.
It's obvious that climatic conditions are changing quite rapidly--it's likely, though not nearly as obvious that our actions are responsible for some of that. The worst case scenario of taking action against global warming (mostly economic downturn) is far preferable to the worst case of not taking action (where economic issues are the least of concerns). So even if the statistics on the worst case scenarios are fuzzy, the case for action over inaction is pretty obvious to me. Nevermind the fact that most of the recommended actions--such as replacing coal power plants with cleaner energy--would be beneficial in other, far more certain ways.
/activate flame-suit
It's obvious that climatic conditions are changing quite rapidly--it's likely, though not nearly as obvious that our actions are responsible for some of that. The worst case scenario of taking action against global warming (mostly economic downturn) is far preferable to the worst case of not taking action (where economic issues are the least of concerns). So even if the statistics on the worst case scenarios are fuzzy, the case for action over inaction is pretty obvious to me. Nevermind the fact that most of the recommended actions--such as replacing coal power plants with cleaner energy--would be beneficial in other, far more certain ways.
/activate flame-suit
Young Roids
Banned
Well I have said it before and I will say it again: We need to controll the population much like China has done by implementing a 1 child per family rule. No one in America wants to hear that one though.
M
mazdamn02
Guest
That's just one of the many problems we're facing... not the only one. I'm pretty sure China pollutes more then their fair share, and a lot of it is probably due to all the consumer goods that we buy from them. Someone care to grab some numbers to back this up or disprove it?
ij1889
New Member
ORLY??? wasnt he the same scientist that said a person needed to drink 2 liters of water and then said "oh... wait... thats toooo much, never mind" well it prob wasnt him but the point is that scientist are always saying shit out of their asses, i am tiered of hearing this global warming shit, and people believing everything they hear, wasnt california supposed to fall into the ocean like 20 years ago??? we cant believe everything these guys say, to me global warming is real, but its also a fraud, i see "global warming" as a way for the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer.
AJ
110 HP of FURY!
The sad thing is, the root causes of global warming is there and proven by fact and shown in examples. So to say these guys say this shit out their ass isn't correct. Do they expand and maybe over estimate their findings, sure, how else would one guy stand out from the next. But the truth is, the problem exists, and while we are taking strides to scale back we can only ask ourselves if it will ever be enough.
We can only conduct our own research on credible sources to have a chance of a valid argument.
We can only conduct our own research on credible sources to have a chance of a valid argument.
D
DrWebster
Guest
On the China issue, my coworker's wife is Chinese and they recently went on vacation there. He said after a couple days, your throat begins to burn from the pollution, then you start coughing stuff up. A good portion of the population actually wears Michael Jackson-esque face masks whenever they're outside. Coal use is rampant -- everything from power plants to street food vendors -- and the number of cars on the roads there is skyrocketing. I even remember reading something about China trying to seed the clouds in Beijing to force it to rain a few days before the Olympics start in order to wash some of the pollution out of the air.
The world needs more nuclear power plants.
The world needs more nuclear power plants.
dmention7
Hater
I think you're confusing "scientists" with "mainstream media outlets that sacrifice factual accuracy and relevance for the ratings that come with overhyping scientific research without bothering to even try to put it into context".
ij1889
New Member
i am not saying that there is no proof to the weather to be changing but shit happens, the world goes through cycles, and to be honest there is nothing we can do to reverse the normal course of the world, sure we might have helped it speed up, but i think the media/big companies blow it up so much that it gets to be mainstream media
Young Roids
Banned
You are right on the money. China has so much polution there is a haze everywhere my cousin just got back in the states from living in china for a year and he keeps saying how amzing it is to see a blue sky and look far into the distance with good visibility. China's polution is basically our own polution extended over there because all our stuff does come from there.
ij1889
New Member
i said this on teamfourdoor.com about how to help gas prices but it pretty much goes with what josh and jay say "see we tap into other countries and drain their resources and kill their enviroments so that we can pansy around saying that we are better than other countries bc we dont do that, we wont ever drill in the states(big time i mean) and the only way the prices will drop is if the saudi princes and the oil community stop being pricks and pump more"
ZoomZoom Diva
New Member
AJ, the causes of global warming are not nearly as clear-cut and indisputed as the recognized scientific community would like to make it appear to be. Unfortunately, there have been many cases of disputing scientists being silenced and dissenting scientists on panels ignored, yet their names still included.
I do believe that the theory of man-made global warming has turned into an industry of its own. The more the theory is presented as indisputed and the greater the degrees of hype and hysteria, the greater the research grants, facilities, speaking tours, book deals and other lucrative offers are.
I also believe we need to take the economic risks far more seriously. A major global depression is going to have long term and widespread effects and also will likely cause a great deal of suffering. Any proposal needs to consider the costs and benefits in realistic terms, without exaggerating some risks or simply turning a blind eye to others.
I do believe that the theory of man-made global warming has turned into an industry of its own. The more the theory is presented as indisputed and the greater the degrees of hype and hysteria, the greater the research grants, facilities, speaking tours, book deals and other lucrative offers are.
I also believe we need to take the economic risks far more seriously. A major global depression is going to have long term and widespread effects and also will likely cause a great deal of suffering. Any proposal needs to consider the costs and benefits in realistic terms, without exaggerating some risks or simply turning a blind eye to others.
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Slim
Guest
While pollution is a rampant problem we need to address everywhere, global warming is only somewhat credible. How can we claim there are significant changes in weather patterns when we've only been recording weather data for like 150 years? An awfully small sampling for a planet billions of years old.
We've had mild winters most of the last few years until this year. It was cold. Bitterly cold and spring seemed to stay cool forever. Does that mean an ice age is coming? (Don't forget about 10 years ago some experts were saying we were heading for another ice age).
We simply don't have enough data to back up global warming. Is pollution a problem? Yes. Does pollution affect our environment? Absolutely. Does that in turn affect our weather patterns? No doubt. But global warming has just become this buzzword-hype (not unlike "green") that gets sensationalized as was said before.
So let's forget about global warming we can't possible grasp details on and focus on improving pollution problems and not damaging our environment.
We've had mild winters most of the last few years until this year. It was cold. Bitterly cold and spring seemed to stay cool forever. Does that mean an ice age is coming? (Don't forget about 10 years ago some experts were saying we were heading for another ice age).
We simply don't have enough data to back up global warming. Is pollution a problem? Yes. Does pollution affect our environment? Absolutely. Does that in turn affect our weather patterns? No doubt. But global warming has just become this buzzword-hype (not unlike "green") that gets sensationalized as was said before.
So let's forget about global warming we can't possible grasp details on and focus on improving pollution problems and not damaging our environment.
dmention7
Hater
While I strongly agree that there is a lot of rampant hysteria and over-hyping of environmental issues these days, that doesn't mean there isn't a lot of good solid science that has been done. A lot of people seem to want to throw the baby out with the bathwater by utterly rejecting the notion that we have had an impact on our global environment, or can have reverse some of that impact, based solely on the fact that a lot of good solid research is being used irresponsibly (whether with good or nefarious intentions) to back more extremist agendas. And that's the part that chafes me the most.
I don't necessarily agree that we should abandon climate change as a reason for initiating environmental policies, but I do whole-heartedly agree that such policies should also focus on the less controversial benefits that go hand-in-hand with greener tech, etc.
I don't necessarily agree that we should abandon climate change as a reason for initiating environmental policies, but I do whole-heartedly agree that such policies should also focus on the less controversial benefits that go hand-in-hand with greener tech, etc.
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spek1098
Guest
Climate change, way too many people try to simplify this concept down to basic ideas, ignoring just how complicated it actually is. You start out with underlying natural patterns like geological activity and orbital orientation. Then you take natural feed back loops that occur from this like ice coverage, cloud coverage, and the amount of carbon synced in the ocean and into plants. Now add to that the human caused effects like green-house gasses and urban development and you got a 50 pound ball of yarn to untangle.
At the same time, climate change is responsible for humans acquiring the ability to walk and adapt from hanging in trees, to walking across the savanna, to developing populations in every single type of climate and terrain, to the ability to learn how to travel in space. Now hopefully climate change will spur us to advance our technological ability to control the climate better, both against natural and unnatural causes of said climate change, and give us the ability to have a deeper understanding of the interconnectedness of us to the world, and to each other.
Now who wants to help me gut my cats?
At the same time, climate change is responsible for humans acquiring the ability to walk and adapt from hanging in trees, to walking across the savanna, to developing populations in every single type of climate and terrain, to the ability to learn how to travel in space. Now hopefully climate change will spur us to advance our technological ability to control the climate better, both against natural and unnatural causes of said climate change, and give us the ability to have a deeper understanding of the interconnectedness of us to the world, and to each other.
Now who wants to help me gut my cats?
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Young Roids
Banned
I do. I do. Can I keep what's inside of them? I hear it's just some sort of worthless honycomb material.
holmstar
New Member
Believe whoever you like but keep in mind that just because someone is a "scientist" doesn't mean they know jack s%$t about climatology. There are lots of different disciplines in science that have nothing to do with climatology. I challenge anyone here to find a reputable climatologist that does not agree that average world temperatures are rising.
What we do know is what the typical warming and cooling cycle has been, and if you look at that, we currently are in the very end of an "interglacial" period. In other words, we should in theory be entering a cooling trend rather than a warming trend.
Also, assuming we have nothing to do with global warming, and we decide to just ignore it... Do a little research on methane hydrate. It is a type of ice that contains large amounts of methane. (note that methane is a much more powerful greenhouse gas than CO2) There are billions and billions of tons of this stuff on the ocean floor all around the world. The oceans only need to warm by a few degrees before this stuff will start to melt.
If it does...
What we do know is what the typical warming and cooling cycle has been, and if you look at that, we currently are in the very end of an "interglacial" period. In other words, we should in theory be entering a cooling trend rather than a warming trend.
Also, assuming we have nothing to do with global warming, and we decide to just ignore it... Do a little research on methane hydrate. It is a type of ice that contains large amounts of methane. (note that methane is a much more powerful greenhouse gas than CO2) There are billions and billions of tons of this stuff on the ocean floor all around the world. The oceans only need to warm by a few degrees before this stuff will start to melt.
If it does...
I believe the Big 3 automakers need to push for more fuel efficient, lighter vehicles to help offset the gas pricing and greenhouse gas emissions.
I also believe street driven daily driver vehicles should keep all emissions equipment intact. The "performance gains" are usually nil/void and I've even seen cars drop power in some applications. OBD II and up, the OEM's really figured out how to add emissions AND make power.
The phasing out of coal power plants (and fossil fuels in general) is also a great idea. I like the usage of sun and wind energy and there are some big companies investing big $$ into developing these into more cost friendly solutions.
I also believe street driven daily driver vehicles should keep all emissions equipment intact. The "performance gains" are usually nil/void and I've even seen cars drop power in some applications. OBD II and up, the OEM's really figured out how to add emissions AND make power.
The phasing out of coal power plants (and fossil fuels in general) is also a great idea. I like the usage of sun and wind energy and there are some big companies investing big $$ into developing these into more cost friendly solutions.