RX-7.... Rotary vs V8

[upgtx]

I have to say I take the side of RockLobster on this one, I have a hard time believing a Chev smallblock would EVER weigh less than a 1.3 rotary.

Motor versus motor... The rotary weighs less, HOWEVER when you take all the turboII crap out of it and you have the two running cars with the only difference being motor and trans (power steering, ac, other accessories maintained), I have seen 3 cars IN PERSON that weighed less. I am not saying all fc's weigh less with the ls1, I am saying the fc TURBOII's with a t56 six speed and an LS1 DOES weigh less than its rotary counterpart.

 

[ij1889]

i say fuck all other type of engine other than rotary, rotary for the win!!!i own a first gen rx7 and it weighs less than 2200lbs and yes i will admit it tourque sucks from my 12a engine and its so so nothing to amazing but i just want yall to know that the 1st gen 12a engine with turbo is actually faster than the 2nd gen turboII with the 13b, the 12a is actually lighter and it is a 1.1 but it was lighter and faster with the turbo than the 13b turboII, stock 12a turbo hits 0-60mph in about 5to 6 seconds which is not bad from a stock engine especially from a 1.1 liter engine. so think about that bitches!!! 1st gen turbo rx-7 for the win, and fuck v-8s!!!


yup.

 

[RockLobster]

Motor versus motor... The rotary weighs less, HOWEVER when you take all the turboII crap out of it and you have the two running cars with the only difference being motor and trans (power steering, ac, other accessories maintained), I have seen 3 cars IN PERSON that weighed less. I am not saying all fc's weigh less with the ls1, I am saying the fc TURBOII's with a t56 six speed and an LS1 DOES weigh less than its rotary counterpart.

This is simply not true and nothing you have linked or shown has proven this...it is part of the misinformation being spread around the issue including the unfouned lack of reliability nonsense which is also spread about the rotary. Rotaries are only as reliable as thier owners.

I dont care if you have witnessed three owners that claimed something like this. Everyone i have ever read about including your examples, every ones i have personally weighed, and all published data has claimed otherwise. Everything is contrary to what you claim. So until you can prove what you say you should stop spreading this misinformation.

There are advantages to v8 swaps in these cars. But, weight, is not one. There are many advantages to keeping the rotary turbo.

 

[upgtx]

Feel free to call Jon Wehner down here in Kato and discuss this with him, he will tell you what his car weighed before and after the v8, you can argue with him if you want... the guy who did the weighing and the conversion.... Twice.

 

[ij1889]

cant we all just get along and agree on the 12a turbo?

 

[TsunamiTam]

cant we all just get along and agree on the 12a turbo?

no

the 13b turbo will beat 12a turbo hands down

the n/a 13b will beat the 12a turbo

 

[FrotchRocket-FC]

For this exact reason I no longer deal with mnmazda, seems to be a significantly increasing amount of dumb kids with way too much money and/or no knowledge of vehicle mechanics (you know who you are, mostly not everyone). My modified 13 comes in at under 300 lbs and my buddies extremely modified ls1 from his gto is about 450 lbs. So if you're thinking my t2 trans weighs that more than the chev, (I can cradle the trans, lift, and align with the clutch/pressure plate into the e-shaft completely by myself), you really have no argument on this topic. If power to weight is so important, get a damn motorcycle, show everybody up, and let it go.

As far as the front plate goes, yes, it must be affixed to the front bumper, absolutely no excuses. It's only a $100 ticket, not $200 some, but get pulled over by a competent officer that knows law, you'll soon find out you're sol, unless you're sporting collector plates or a nice rack. I fought with the Anoka County prosecuter, failed, then the judge himself, still failed. The only way I would have been able to get out of paying the fine would have been to schedule an official court hearing and pray the officer who pulled me over wouldnt show, but if he would, the fine would have gone up for legal costs or some bs. All that came straight from the judge's mouth. Again, if you don't believe me, try it sometime, it's fun...

 

[Big Nate]

Well there is something to be said for people who don’t like the site.

If would like to post up some good info on how cars work then feel free.


So please do a write-up or two on things you have done and I will sticky what is good.
The Lack of car knowledge is also do to lack of patience by some of the members.

Nate

 

[ij1889]

hey nick, just look up the comparison of the first gen turbo, compared to the turboII i would not shit you but for somereason its just a tad little faster, not by much tho. im not saying the 13b isnt better in fact it is, but the 12a turbo beat the 13b turbo II.

 

[TsunamiTam]

hmm well here are some numbers of the weight (in lbs) for most of all the main rotoraries

<img src= "http://forums.streetfire.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=30405&stc=1">

appears that the 13 is lighter in both aspects (n/a and turbo)

heres the link too

http://forums.streetfire.net/showthread.php?t=22295&page=2&pp=10

im not saying i dont like the 12a, just saying that 13b is an advanced model

just like the 20b
^_^

 

[RockLobster]

And for those who dont believe in rotary reliability/longevity.

A rotary powerd RX-8 just won GT class rolex 24hr at daytona......again.

 

[spek1098]

And for those who dont believe in rotary reliability/longevity.

A rotary powerd RX-8 just won GT class rolex 24hr at daytona......again.

Then why aren't they in more cars if they are so reliable?

 

[ij1889]

its called a copyright, mazda has a chokehold on these engines

 

[RockLobster]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wankel_engine

Does a good job of answering your question.

Primarily is because mazda has and still does own patents on many of the little details that make thier rotary engines reliable, functional, efficent, and powerful.

Thus, and beyond that it would be a very big and expensiver learning curve for any other manufacturer...one not worth pursuing due to the fact that the rotary engine is by nature less thermally efficent than a piston engine.

As i keep saying, rotaries have disadvantages to piston engines, as well as advantages.

Ultimatly what kept it down historically was the fact that they dont tolerate lack of maintenance like SOME pistion engines do, thus the typical idiot consumer dosnt want something that wont hold up to thier lack of responsibility...

Further, they require tighter manufacturing tolerances to produce good power than piston engines thus they historically were more expensive to produce.

Again, there is a long list of advantages, and an equally long list of disadvantages...

I might ask you, why are they such popular choices for kit and custom aircraft engines if they are not reliable? You dont exactly have the luxury of pulling over on a cloud when your plane breaks down....

 

[ij1889]

rock lobster i love how you think, not to bad my rx-7 brotha, rotaries for life.

and nick check out the facebook group this dude is doing crazy mods with his 1st gen rx7 13B!!!!

 

[mndsm]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wankel_engine

Does a good job of answering your question.

Primarily is because mazda has and still does own patents on many of the little details that make thier rotary engines reliable, functional, efficent, and powerful.

Thus, and beyond that it would be a very big and expensiver learning curve for any other manufacturer...one not worth pursuing due to the fact that the rotary engine is by nature less thermally efficent than a piston engine.

As i keep saying, rotaries have disadvantages to piston engines, as well as advantages.

Ultimatly what kept it down historically was the fact that they dont tolerate lack of maintenance like SOME pistion engines do, thus the typical idiot consumer dosnt want something that wont hold up to thier lack of responsibility...

Further, they require tighter manufacturing tolerances to produce good power than piston engines thus they historically were more expensive to produce.

Again, there is a long list of advantages, and an equally long list of disadvantages...

I might ask you, why are they such popular choices for kit and custom aircraft engines if they are not reliable? You dont exactly have the luxury of pulling over on a cloud when your plane breaks down....

Whaddya mean I can't just stop my shit in mid-air and fix it?

 

[upgtx]

Also, I am pretty sure that is an NA rotary, which happen to be very reliable... It is boost that lowers their lifespan.

 

[RockLobster]

As it does with any car....

Yes, if you lean out a turbo rotary you are very likely going to blow it up. A force fed piston motor will take improper tuning better, aka will survive a few pings.

On the flip side if you badly over rev a piston motor, force fed or otherwise, beyond what it was built for, you will skatter it. Where as a rotory has a much better chance of surviving...

Advantages and disadvantages....both platforms have them.

 

[RockLobster]

Oh and a 13b in a first gen is wicked. Light platform with a bigger, more powerful motor. Good stuff.

I would love to build a 20b FC race car, but ultimatly doing a 20b RIGHT is just to damn expensive, even N/A.

That in some ways is where an LSx swap makes sense. If you want 500+ HP it is WAY cheaper to do it with an LSx swap, than try to do it rotary, 13b turbo, 20b turbo, or 20b N/A. None of the 3 are cheap endevors for 500+ HP.

But, of course you raise your roll center with a v8.

The weight of a 20b vs and LSx motor is pretty much a wash all said and done.

EDIT: What i am very excited for is the new 1.6 liter long-stroke 2-rotor. Speculation of over 300 N/A HP, and piston engine comperable torque throughout the powerband. All in fully aluminum block. That would be amazing if it actually makes production...

 

[dmention7]

Flame suit, ENGAGE!!!