Speaking of cars that look like MS3...

[Young Roids]

I have never like those shifter coming out of the front part like that either.

 

[Z-licious]

Wait, wasn't James saying that the new STI gets the Aztek award this year?

 

[ZoomZoom Diva]

actually its easy when its up there, if you have the arm rest... closer to the steering wheel the faster the shift for racing

The actual shift motion though is completely different and not nearly as smooth as placing the lever in the traditional location. The time off the steering wheel is not what is relevant, but the time off the throttle for the actual shift.

Yes, I did christen the entire Impreza line as the 2008 Aztek Award winner.

 

[mazdamn02]

I can't see how someone would think the new STI is that bad. I like it except for the price.

 

[Z-licious]

The actual shift motion though is completely different and not nearly as smooth as placing the lever in the traditional location. The time off the steering wheel is not what is relevant, but the time off the throttle for the actual shift.

Not when you're racing. You want both hands on the wheel as long as possible. The closer your shift knob is to the wheel the better. Ideally you want the shift knob to be about the same height as where your hand rests on the wheel.

 

[mndsm]

Yeah, you are correct on that. I think James' point was closer to the fact that if you have the shifter close like that, and the action is all wonky, it can take you just as long ( and consequently keep your hand off of the wheel) as a traditional shifter with a more solid action. I've not yet met a dash based shifter that was better than ANY console based shifter. (With the exception of my ex's Civic. But I hated that car. And I hate her. Leave me for a pothead you stupid.... wait, nevermind)

 

[ZoomZoom Diva]

While having both hands on the wheel as much as possible is beneficial, you're not losing time until you're losing speed. It is better to have a longer arm motion to a lever with a quick and natural motion than a short arm motion to a lever that has a sloppy and unnatural motion.

The Aztek award is based solely on cosmetic looks, and the while the STi is not as nausea-inducing as some other winners, there were no new or substantially redesigned 2008 models that were worse.

 

[ij1889]

you okay theer tom, seems like you were having a bad flashback. i agree with the shifter being so close, i dont digg it

 

[mndsm]

Well, having the shifter close is fine, and preferrable. Look at the way rally cars are set up. The problem is, most of the OE shifters like that tend to have a really bizarre action that is NOT the most user friendly. Time spent shifting is time spent not having both hands on the wheel, regardless of HOW it's spent.

Also, yeah, bad flashback, or something. Must have been from my time in 'Nam.

 

[Z-licious]

It's not about losing speed. It's about having your other hand off of the wheel. You want both hands on the wheel to react to road, drivers, etc. The closer the shift knob is to the wheel, the better for this, as long as the shift is clean and fast.

 

[mndsm]

Exactly. The problem is, at least in my experience, it's not easy at all to get a shift that is either clean or fast out of one of those.

 

[dmention7]

Right tom, the conventional shifter placement allows the shifter to be bolted directly to the frame of the car. When you place it up on the console, you lose a lot of the solidness of the mounting and it ends up feeling all soft and squishy. Furthermore, there isn't room to put a very long lever up there, so you end up with a large angular throw (even if the linear throw isn't very long) which just feels awkward. The cars that I have driven with high-mounted shifters all feel like you are playing an arcade game... there just isn't the solid mechanical feel I want.

Look at rally and drift cars. The factors Eddy was talking about are obviously crucial there, but they solve the problem by using a long shift lever with a short angular throw. (The MS shifter for the mazda3 was felt like it was designed along those lines) If the console-mounted shifter was the ideal solution for racing applications, I'm pretty sure you would see that being used. Instead, where it pops up is on economy cars.

 

[ij1889]

if you want to shift the fastes you just stick with pedal shifters, imo

 

[mndsm]

If you want to shift the fastest, you program the shit out of an automatic.