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Two-Stroke Marine Oil in your gas?

dmention7

Hater
Well, shit, it's posted on the internet right? It has to be true.


Some old coot and his airplane mechanic buddies get talking about the "shit quality of gas" these days and decide dumping 2-cycle oil in the gas tank is the solution? hoooooookay....
 
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DrWebster

Guest
Some old coot and his airplane mechanic buddies get talking about the "shit quality of gas" these days and decide dumping 2-cycle oil in the gas tank is the solution? hoooooookay....
That is the EXACT reason why I don't trust anything on the Bob Is The Oil Guy forums. Half the people are "shit, oil is oil, it don't matter" and the other half are "ZOMG I MAKE MY OWN OIL CAUSE EVERYTHING ON THE MARKET IS TEH SUCK!!!"
 

Workdawg

NARWHAL
You guys make me sad... I didn't post this for blind skepticism. I was hoping someone more knowledgable than I would be able to take a look at what they are saying objectively.

These guys aren't affiliated with oil companies, they aren't selling anything. They literrally have no reason to do this stuff other than to help their community.
 

ZoomZoom Diva

New Member
Dan, there is a need for a healthy dose of skepticism when you see something like this. Over the years, many of us have seen many different things promised to do all sorts of great things and not pan out... many of which are presented by well-meaning individuals who simply didn't think things through or get things quite right. I have not been able to read it through, and I intend to do so, but it will be with a mindset that they will need to prove otherwise.
 

Workdawg

NARWHAL
That's fine and understandable... but if you don't think it works, then provide some reasons why... I posted it here because I'm skeptical.

Having read a few pages of it, it seems to make sense, but like I said, I'm less knowledgeable about this stuff, so I'm just going by what the OP said in the thread.

IMO, there are two scenarios here.
1) The guy has one of the most epic trolls ever. Lasting well over a year and actually tricking LOTS people (via placebo effect I guess) into thinking it actually does something.
2) It does work and the OP wants others to benefit from his knowledge.

Which seems more likely?

I can understand the arguement for actual products being advertised to do such things. Chips that produce 50% more horsepower, a fuel additive that gives you 20% better gas mileage, etc... but that's not the case here. It's a guy who says that adding ANY brand of a certain type of oil will give you minor improvements for a pretty cheap cost. He's not selling anything, he doesn't benefit at all from making these claims.
 

dmention7

Hater
Well, here's where my skepticism comes from: 2-stroke oil is neither exotic, nor expensive, but it was designed for a specific purpose... to lubricate a motor that, by design, cannot use a conventional sump lubrication system by feeding lubricant with the fuel, since the fuel mixture contacts the entire rotating assembly.

A 4-stroke engine has all of its rotating assemblies lubricated by a purpose-engineered system. The only surface contacted by both the fuel and the oil are the cylinder walls. Unless you simply refuse to change your oil, this is not a common failure point except at very high milages, and not a catastrophic failure point.

If there was as drastic of a benefit for general motor health and operation as this guy claimed, why the hell does our gasoline not contain these small quantities of heavy oils. Even buying consumer-size packages of oil, the cost is claimed to be negligible. If oil companies were mixing the shit in at the refining step, there would probably be no noticable price difference for the consumer. So that brings us to the two scenarios I see:

-There is a massive conspiracy between the oil companies and car manufacturers to make our cars run dirtier and fail more quickly.

-This is a classic case of a poorly-conducted experiment with no controls and completely biased reporting.

To expand on the second scenario, who else is going to take the time to think up the idea and add 2-stroke oil to their gas except someone who presumably is obsessed with maintaining their vehicle? And how many of these people are taking two identical cars, and driving and maintaining them identically except for the fuel additive?


In my opinion, the guy is probably well-meaning, but he honestly sounds like he thinks he knows a lot more than he does. That's the difference between theoretical knowledge and practical knowledge. And it's also precisely why you never believe something startling you read on the internet without independent verification.
 
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DrWebster

Guest
If there was as drastic of a benefit for general motor health and operation as this guy claimed, why the hell does our gasoline not contain these small quantities of heavy oils.
DING DING DING. If this actually worked, this shit would be all over the place -- everyone would have heard about it, and there would be products made to monopolize on it. Billy Mays or that Shamwow guy or whoever would even be doing informercials about it, with "5 PERCENT MORE MILES PER GALLON!!!" being the main selling point.

Also, one ounce of the oil per every 5 gallons sounds like an awfully convenient ratio for it to be the "optimal" mixture.
 

Workdawg

NARWHAL
One oz per 5 gallons is actually NOT the optimal mixture, but the easiest one to follow (covered in the thread).

As far as Jay's Scenario #1... does it really seem far-fetched that the oil companies and car manus are in cahoots? There are trillions of dollars at stake between the two.
 

Picklz

SUDO Make me a SAMCH
I haven't read the thread or put all that much thought into this (yet) however the one point Jay brings up, that i think may be of interest to the DISI guys is there has been talk of poor lubrication/oiling of the cylinder walls, in part due to the Direct Inject system / design, so it is possible this would help with that, as far as it being a great solution for the majority of vehicles out there I would be even more skeptical, but for certain vehicles/situations, perhaps.

As for our gas, there are already detergents and such added to the gas to help prevent carbon build up, to combat water, etc, etc. and for 'most' vehicles the gas today is adequate. As far as why they wouldn't want to add more crap to the fuel if it was beneficial - think about how many millions of gallons of gas is sold every day, even an increase in cost of a cent or two a gallon would be significant.
 
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ZoomZoom Diva

New Member
To expand on the second scenario, who else is going to take the time to think up the idea and add 2-stroke oil to their gas except someone who presumably is obsessed with maintaining their vehicle? And how many of these people are taking two identical cars, and driving and maintaining them identically except for the fuel additive?
Not to mention to compare the performance to the performance of other fuel additives (particularly Techron and Redline, which have been recommended to me by automotive engineers and fuel injection experts) when used either periodically or on an ongoing basis. Also, while they aggregate miles, my skim did not seem to hit on long term effects (100K+ on a single automobile).

Dan, I think such a conspiracy is far-fetched, particularly when fuel economy is a very marketable commodity even since the price of oil is back in double digits.

The bottom line is we hear about this or that home solution all the time. In the 50's they were recommending putting 1/2 gallon of gasoline in the oil fill when changing oil to clean the crankcase. Then there was using ATF for some of the oil for better cleaning capabilities... and the list goes on and on.
 
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Workdawg

NARWHAL
Dan, I think such a conspiracy is far-fetched, particularly when fuel economy is a very marketable commodity even since the price of oil is back in double digits.

The bottom line is we hear about this or that home solution all the time. In the 50's they were recommending putting 1/2 gallon of gasoline in the oil fill when changing oil to clean the crankcase. Then there was using ATF for some of the oil for better cleaning capabilities... and the list goes on and on.

I disagree... as Matt said, even increasing the cost of production for gas a fraction of a cent per gallon could easily cost them millions of dollars. According to this website, Americans use 378 MILLION gallons of gas PER DAY. If it would cost even 1/10th of a penny per gallon to make gas better, it would cost them $378,000 per day.

I'm sure if I could find statistics on MPGs cutting into oil companies profits as well. I don't believe that auto manufacturers are producing more fuel efficient cars for any reason other than govt. mandates and the occasional hybrid, just to say they're making one to look good in the public eye. There are other conspiracy theories out there as well, about a carborator that allowed for hundreds of miles per gallon, someone "killed the electric car" that chevy was developing years ago. It wouldn't really surprise me to find out that oil companies were behing stuff like that. When you make tens of billions in PROFIT. You can afford to protect it outside the law.

I'm considering giving this a try, though apparently there are issues with E10 gas...
 

ZoomZoom Diva

New Member
Dan, but it if it were that much better and it could be demonstrated to be that much better in independent tests, they could charge the extra amount... as gas companies would LOVE to have SOMETHING that shows their gas isn't just a commodity item.

While I hardly consider the gas companies and the auto manufacturers altrusitic, I think you are placing a greater cynicism on them then I would and less on this 2-cycle oil concept than I am. I highly doubt the 100 mpg carb really existed, and the electric car was killed because it was a financial disaster.

E10 is another issue for another time.
 

Workdawg

NARWHAL
While some people would certainly care if gas was better for their car, I think most americans (damn ignorant people), would just be outraged at a price increase. So many people in this country don't give 2 shits about their car as long as it gets them from A to B.

I am being more cynical about oil companies because they are out to make money. There is no other reason for them to be in business. Maximizing profits is the name of the game. There really isn't any reason for the guys behind the 2-cycle oil idea to do this other than to improve how their cars run. They aren't selling anything.

What's the deal with E10? 10% ethanol... but is ALL gas in MN E10? I tried googling it but can't seem to find any real answers, only news articles about semi-related stuff (and Gov. Pawlenty). Is premium E10? Does it say on the pump someplace what you're pumping?
 

ZoomZoom Diva

New Member
There are some premium gas that is not E10. It is supposed to only be used for vintage and off-road purposes, but it really isn't enforced. Motorcycle clubs sometimes list non-E10 premium gas station locations. The problem with E10 is it reduces fuel economy considerably, plus the other issues associated with the boondoggle otherwise known as corn-based ethanol. I believe both E10 and non-E10 are labeled on the pump.

If the gas company could show that the additive improved mileage to offset the additional amount of the gas, they could attract customers to their product, gain market share, and increase profits that way. The reason behind the 2-cycle oil idea is probably with good intentions and is irrelevant. I just don't see enough evidence to back up their conclusions and it just doesn't pass the common-sense smell test for me.
 

dmention7

Hater
While some people would certainly care if gas was better for their car, I think most americans (damn ignorant people), would just be outraged at a price increase. So many people in this country don't give 2 shits about their car as long as it gets them from A to B.
Gas prices are constantly fluctuating, on a daily basis. A one-time increase of even 10 cents per gallon would probably go unnoticed by the majority of consumers. Well, unless it was blown out of proportion on the evening news.

And I see enough commercials for gas companies advertising how their "unique" gasoline additives make your car run cleaner, better, and longer to agree 100% with James that they would absolutely jump at the chance to prove their gas is a product and not just a commodity.
 

TriforcePowered

New Member
The RX7 has an Oil Metering Pump which pumps oil into the fuel to lubricate the Apex seals (in place of a piston engines piston rings) Some guys fear this pump will fail them. So they remove it, they then have to put two-stroke oil into their gas for the lubrication... Other then that, seems crazy (not that this doesn't also seem pretty crazy as I haven't read or seen anyone saying that this pump failed them and and killed their car...)
 

Grappler

Member
The RX7 has an Oil Metering Pump which pumps oil into the fuel to lubricate the Apex seals (in place of a piston engines piston rings) Some guys fear this pump will fail them. So they remove it, they then have to put two-stroke oil into their gas for the lubrication... Other then that, seems crazy (not that this doesn't also seem pretty crazy as I haven't read or seen anyone saying that this pump failed them and and killed their car...)
I do know a few guys that have had it fail and its not pretty, the housings get nice gouges in them. Its not common with the s4's as they are mechanical so if you have an OMP for sale it goes for a fair price however the S5's use an electrical OMP which is prone to failure. So the OMP removal in rx7's is more leaning towards the S5.

However its is also a good thing because the OMP injects oil into the combustion chamber which while lubricating the combustion chamber and seals. It does coat the interior of the engine with ash. Which can cause something called carbon lock which is the buildup of ash content in the engine. By premixing you can lessen or effectively eliminate the threat of carbon lock or seizure. Especially if you get low ash content 2 stroke oil this not only cleans out your engines housing and combustion chambers but, it does increase horsepower lost due to carbon buildup.

So in some cases in some engines its a good thing...
 

niterydr

Legendary Status!
My old Fb's metering pump was dead when I bought the car so the car got Marvel's mystery oil at the fuel station.
 
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