Puppy-tossing Marine

[mazdamn02]

We should start a war for them to fix the crosstown, srsly.

 

[mndsm]

Agreed. Maybe if it gets bombed enough they'll make it better.

 

[JustROLLIN]

Wow, this thread is a mess. LOL. You guys are arguing about six different topics.

 

[mazdamn02]

I love lamp.

 

[mndsm]

Turfclud?

 

[spek1098]

:threadjacked:

First you are wrong when you say we didn’t get help. The French helped us and so did the Spanish. That is only with the revolution they helped. With our civil war there was less help.

:soapbox:

True, but its not right to say the way we "helped" Iraq and the way the French and Spanish help the US in 1776 are anyway alike. America decaired independance from a home grown revolution, ie we were taking our own future into our own hands. Iraq is nothing of the sort. They have a complete different idological and moral beliefs then the west. We came in, from the outside, and said this is how it's going to be, and we are still stuggling, although slowly doing better, to hand over responsible for their future to their citizens.

But there is only one reason for war and that is economic. Every single war has been one place/person trying to better there way of life. So that is the only reason for war.

Thank you for that. We are in Iraq for economics; to "help" the Iraqis is not our leading motivation for being in there. In the end, it’s about securing our economic interests. Is that right or wrong? I won't judge that, but the least we should do is admit it.

/rant

Ok, I'll stay out if you prefer

 

[mazdamn02]

Turfclud!

If I hear anything else about Iraq and politics I'm leaving this forum and driving the speed in to a wall lol.

 

[YSOSLO]

The troops are no heros. Everybody is in this dream world that our military are these good guys and heros. We are just as bad if not worse than the terrorists that we are fighting. I am disgusted..........

Wow........

Yes the "troops" are not heros, but there are certainly some heros among them. There are also some major tools among them too. The real heros IMO are the mothers and fathers left behind in the U.S. to take care of their kids whem Dad or Mom are over serving W's private war... And what was annoyingly funny when I was over there was how time after time Generals and Colonels would stand in front of us and thank us all for "volunteering" to fight...as if those of us that signed up for the National Guard years before W was put into office actually had a friggin' choice about the matter. When they call, you go. Period. Unless you want to become a deserter (although that might help your chance at becoming President one day).

I am not proud to be an american and quite frankly I can see exactly why other countries hate us..

Spoken like someone that's never been outside the U.S. and has no clue about what we have here. I'm sorry you can't be proud of all of the incredibly great things American individuals and the government have done to help make the world a better place. Sure we can all recite loads of examples of the U.S. screwing countries over by either not doing anything as things went horribly wrong (like Darfur for one) or by doing something politically that ended up causing a lot of problems later on (like giving Saddam Hussein assistance when we were so focussed on Iran being the "bad guy" in the early 80's). BUT, this country is definitely one of the cleanest, most educated (overall) and wealthy countries in the World when you look at countries as a whole...and if you can't be proud to be a part of a country as well-off as this one, then I truly hope at some point in your life you're able to do some traveling to Central America or Africa or the Middle East to see what it would be like in a country where your daily decision isn't 35% tint or 15, but rather should I crap next to that tree or that rock over there...oh wait, somebody already GOT that tree.

 

[ZoomZoom Diva]

I think we need to take a step back and see that we all have different criteria for how we judge a nation and whether or not we think we can take pride in our nation. Personally, I do not believe our nation is defined by the actions of our government or its representatives, but its private citizens. Therefore, I believe the actions in Iraq reflect our government, but are not a reflection of our nation. Also, while I believe we are very fortunate to have an overall high standard of living, I don't think that is really what national pride is about.

I'm proud to be an American because of the level of freedom we enjoy to live our lives with less intrusion by outside forces (including government) than other nations. I may get frustrated, because this very aspect that makes us special is under such intense attack, especially by our own government, but I still can't deny the freedom is still there at this time.

 

[upgtx]

Personally, I am not proud of our country. There are many, many, problems that need to be fixed, the Government being one. Until we fix those problems I won't be proud of this country.

Also, a lot of foreign people DO dislike our country because of how the individuals live and act, and also because of what our ELECTED officials do. Go to any college campus and talk to some of the international students who aren't 'minnesota nice', they will tell you how they really feel.

I do APPRECIATE the opportunities I have here in the USA, but I am not proud of the country.

 

[mazdamn02]

Go to any college campus and talk to some of the international students who aren't 'minnesota nice', they will tell you how they really feel.

That about sums it up, glad you get along so well with the international college students, they know everything you know.

 

[upgtx]

What exactly do you mean by that? I form my own opinions, but it was mentioned earlier in the thread that not everyone dislikes the USA. It is important though that people do know that many people dislike our government.

 

[mazdamn02]

What exactly do you mean by that? I form my own opinions, but it was mentioned earlier in the thread that not everyone dislikes the USA. It is important though that people do know that many people dislike our government.

Why's that so important? Do you think there's one country in the world that like's their government? Name 3, hell, name 1.

 

[ZoomZoom Diva]

I am curious what problems you believe need to be fixed systematically in order for you to be proud of this country?

Also, if the international students hate the country so much, why are they here?

 

[Young Roids]

Wow........

Yes the "troops" are not heros, but there are certainly some heros among them. There are also some major tools among them too. The real heros IMO are the mothers and fathers left behind in the U.S. to take care of their kids whem Dad or Mom are over serving W's private war... And what was annoyingly funny when I was over there was how time after time Generals and Colonels would stand in front of us and thank us all for "volunteering" to fight...as if those of us that signed up for the National Guard years before W was put into office actually had a friggin' choice about the matter. When they call, you go. Period. Unless you want to become a deserter (although that might help your chance at becoming President one day).



Spoken like someone that's never been outside the U.S. and has no clue about what we have here. I'm sorry you can't be proud of all of the incredibly great things American individuals and the government have done to help make the world a better place. Sure we can all recite loads of examples of the U.S. screwing countries over by either not doing anything as things went horribly wrong (like Darfur for one) or by doing something politically that ended up causing a lot of problems later on (like giving Saddam Hussein assistance when we were so focussed on Iran being the "bad guy" in the early 80's). BUT, this country is definitely one of the cleanest, most educated (overall) and wealthy countries in the World when you look at countries as a whole...and if you can't be proud to be a part of a country as well-off as this one, then I truly hope at some point in your life you're able to do some traveling to Central America or Africa or the Middle East to see what it would be like in a country where your daily decision isn't 35% tint or 15, but rather should I crap next to that tree or that rock over there...oh wait, somebody already GOT that tree.

In response to the first part, I'm sure there are heroes among the armed forces. But I believe the vast majority of our troops are not heros but rather disgusting cowards who get there jollies off by torturing people and commiting atrocities. I think that the true heros are few and far between. It looks to me that the military is a sick and disgusting culture of hate. So every time one of our soldiers gets his leg blown off don't just assume that he is now a hero he just might of had it coming to him.

Now on to the second part. I am not denying that here in the US we have one of the richest cultures in the world. That's true third world countries have is much harder than we do. Now does this make me proud? No. I would be proud if I saw justice being done. I am not even trying to say we need to be the worlds babysitter and help them all out of their problems. Quite the opposite maybe we should start listening to guys like Ron Paul and start withdrawing troops from other countries. Since at least in Iraq we seem to be doing much more harm than good.

 

[Young Roids]

I think we need to take a step back and see that we all have different criteria for how we judge a nation and whether or not we think we can take pride in our nation. Personally, I do not believe our nation is defined by the actions of our government or its representatives, but its private citizens. Therefore, I believe the actions in Iraq reflect our government, but are not a reflection of our nation. Also, while I believe we are very fortunate to have an overall high standard of living, I don't think that is really what national pride is about.

I agree with part of this. I think you are right on about what national pride shouldn't be about. But I don't know if the citizens of our country are exempt from judgment on this either we as citizens have alot of problems as well just look at how much racism is still here hispanics hate blacks and vises versa, the black/white thing continues to this day. Basically we still have plenty of problems as citizens. But mainly I agree with your post.

 

[Young Roids]

Personally, I am not proud of our country. There are many, many, problems that need to be fixed, the Government being one. Until we fix those problems I won't be proud of this country.

Also, a lot of foreign people DO dislike our country because of how the individuals live and act, and also because of what our ELECTED officials do. Go to any college campus and talk to some of the international students who aren't 'minnesota nice', they will tell you how they really feel.

I do APPRECIATE the opportunities I have here in the USA, but I am not proud of the country.

Word. I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Young Roids]

I am curious what problems you believe need to be fixed systematically in order for you to be proud of this country?

Also, if the international students hate the country so much, why are they here?

I think people come over here hearing about the "american dream" only to realize it's an american nightmare for them because they don't fit in because they are from a different country and they deal with alot of racist crap because of it.

 

[dmention7]

In response to the first part, I'm sure there are heroes among the armed forces. But I believe the vast majority of our troops are not heros but rather disgusting cowards who get there jollies off by torturing people and commiting atrocities. I think that the true heros are few and far between. It looks to me that the military is a sick and disgusting culture of hate. So every time one of our soldiers gets his leg blown off don't just assume that he is now a hero he just might of had it coming to him.

You honestly believe that the vast majority of our military is comprised of twisted sociopaths? Those are some pretty serious charges to level.

I think you should be careful not to project your feelings about the missions into which these soldiers are commanded, onto the human beings who dutifully carry out those orders. These "disgusting cowards" are your neighbors, your coworkers, your classmates, and very likely your friends. You are correct that the vast majority of the military are not necessarily heroes--they are just ordinary people whose sworn duty to their country places them in extraordinary situations.

Honestly, it's easy to sit here from the comfort of your home and decry their actions as disgusting and amoral. Until you've actually been faced with combat, however, such charges are at best meaningless, and at worst downright insulting.

 

[Young Roids]

I may be coming off as judgemental and that is wrong of me but some of this stuff makes me sick so I just have to vent a little. I was liking Mcain untill he switched his stance on waterboarding right aftr getting the nomination. How can Mcain of all people start supporting the torture after he himself was tortured for all those years? I guess I will have to hope Barak wins the nomination because I can't stand Hilary either. I just hope we can change our ways for the better somehow.

P.S. A good movie about this subject Is "in the valley of ellah" I would reccomend watching it if you haven't seen it. It just came to dvd.